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I've read this post several times over the last few days. Sorry Markos but the logic just fails. This is your argument:
A: Raw lifting should not allow for equipment that assists the lift
B: Belts and knee sleeves add nothing to the lift - its all in the mind
C: Therefore belts and knee sleeves shouldnt be allowed because they are not 'raw'
I'm lost. If they add nothing to the lift why ban them? because theyre not natural?
Why don't we ban t-shirts whilst we're at it? they dont assist the lift and we sure as hell weren't born with them.
Hell, if we're going to get rid of things that might 'assist' the lift and are 'unatural' we should get rid of heeled shoes - we weren't born with those either and they sure as hell create better leverages for most people.
You should research the early days of powerlifting Oli, and see how everything "crept" in, then you'll have more understanding to my resistance.
I really dont care for equipped lifting, I wont tell them what to do, and in return, equipped lifters who dont have a raw section in their federation, should keep their noses out of raw lifting.
Those that dont compete can suit themselves, their opinion is irrelevant anyway, who gives a f u c k what they think.
Lifters are voting with their feet anyway, powerlifting has been declining long enough I think.
Whatever it takes to drag strong guys out of the gym and onto the platform.
Those that stay in the gym can wear stockings for all I care.
I really dont care for equipped lifting, I wont tell them what to do, and in return, equipped lifters who dont have a raw section in their federation, should keep their noses out of raw lifting.
Those that dont compete can suit themselves, their opinion is irrelevant anyway, who gives a f u c k what they think.
Lifters are voting with their feet anyway, powerlifting has been declining long enough I think.
Whatever it takes to drag strong guys out of the gym and onto the platform.
Those that stay in the gym can wear stockings for all I care.
frank manning
New member
This doesn't address Olivers point, though.
Knee sleeves (not wraps) don't assist the lift, they simply help prevent sore knees.
Belts I've never used and haven't looked into so no comment.
But what is the issue with knee sleeves? It's not like you can call wraps sleeves and sneak their use in, they are totally different in both form and function.
Using them to warm up and then not for the main lift sort of defeats the purpose, you've still got 3 max loads without the extra warmth.
KeLLyKiNeZ
New member
The Markos' point is of simplicity. If you had a 100% RAW comp then you'd know you couldn't use anything at all. There would be no need for rules for how thick a belt is? what kinda material are the sleeves made of... etc. What if a manufacture of knee sleeves starts making them with a slightly stiffer material, or starts making them a little bit thicker where it may possibly aid a lifter?
With a 100% RAW rule there would be no confusion. And if every federation did this, then we'd have 1 set of rules to follow and we'd be 1 step closer to getting rid of the 1,000,000 different federations and unifying the sport of powerlifting.
With a 100% RAW rule there would be no confusion. And if every federation did this, then we'd have 1 set of rules to follow and we'd be 1 step closer to getting rid of the 1,000,000 different federations and unifying the sport of powerlifting.
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KeLLyKiNeZ
New member
If your worried about ****ing up your knees in the 1-2mins it takes for you to do a single attempt cos your knees aren't warm, you have much bigger issues to worry about then sleeves.
why not not have squat stands though to save on confusion? thats just one more thing in between you and the bar (very heavily specified too)
also, theres not a fed in the world where the use of a belt is debated.
I get markos' point. My deal is you're assuming you have the minimum standard for 100% raw when truly you can go further (removing heeled shoes and squat stands).
Try not to use crutches unless its necessary - fine I'll agree, but if a lifter chooses to wear a piece of material around their knees for extra support why should they be relegated to the equipped division despite the fact that they add nothing to the lift?
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KeLLyKiNeZ
New member
I kind of a agree with you on the heeled shoe bit but not on the squat stand. Nobody is bringing in their own squat stand at a comp. Everyone on the day will be squatting with the same piece of equipment so no one has an advantage.
They may not add anything to the lift... yet. One day manufacturers are going to start designing braces that aid a little, it may not be much, but aid they will. You can already get sleeves with straps on them to tighten them up, next they'll be made of a new, stiffer material. What next?
Once that happens every federation is going to need to have a list of types/brands that are allowed and every competitor is going to need to have their sleeves checked to make sure they conform to the rules.
They may not add anything to the lift... yet. One day manufacturers are going to start designing braces that aid a little, it may not be much, but aid they will. You can already get sleeves with straps on them to tighten them up, next they'll be made of a new, stiffer material. What next?
Once that happens every federation is going to need to have a list of types/brands that are allowed and every competitor is going to need to have their sleeves checked to make sure they conform to the rules.
All you'd have to do is approve a particular make of sleeve - eg neopane like IPF allow.
Nothing wrong with checking equipment (people in IPF have been known to doc shoes), I'd hope that would exist in any fed regardless of raw/equipped division.
Truth is sleeves, belt and any supportive gear that doesnt store energy on the decent is going to have minimal carryover to a raw lift. If you get beaten by someone wearing nothing but knee sleeves my guess is it probably wasn;t the knee sleeves that won the competition.
Nothing wrong with checking equipment (people in IPF have been known to doc shoes), I'd hope that would exist in any fed regardless of raw/equipped division.
Truth is sleeves, belt and any supportive gear that doesnt store energy on the decent is going to have minimal carryover to a raw lift. If you get beaten by someone wearing nothing but knee sleeves my guess is it probably wasn;t the knee sleeves that won the competition.
jonnie_sfw
New member
Personally I find that my hips start to feel the effects of raw squatting before my kness but I've only gone upto a triple @ 260kg
M
macmad
Guest
ignoring the issue of knee sleeves for a minute, have at look at this "alltime" Raw ( with wraps) record.
Robert Wilkerson Totals 2,200 Raw and Sets New WR | Powerlifting Watch
Not even locked out at the top, the back spotter has to stop him from falling over.
Yet the yanks consider this a new record, beating Mark Henrys walked out squat.
If you're going to have raw it should be walked out.
Even most of the raw guys at the CAPO nats in 2008 walked their squats out. The guy from Queensland was the most impressive, can't remember his name but he walked about 1-2 metres back from the mono and squatted 300+ very deep with just a flimsy bodybuilder belt.
Robert Wilkerson Totals 2,200 Raw and Sets New WR | Powerlifting Watch
Not even locked out at the top, the back spotter has to stop him from falling over.
Yet the yanks consider this a new record, beating Mark Henrys walked out squat.
If you're going to have raw it should be walked out.
Even most of the raw guys at the CAPO nats in 2008 walked their squats out. The guy from Queensland was the most impressive, can't remember his name but he walked about 1-2 metres back from the mono and squatted 300+ very deep with just a flimsy bodybuilder belt.
The biggest issue in all this is that you guys are forgetting WHO sets the rules.
Its not Capo, its not PA, its not an old fart in a garage.
Its the World Powerlifting Congress and the IPF. Lobby them.
Oli, your comment about the IPF allowing knee sleeves is now bordering on coming from a kid with autism. The IPF allow knee wraps FFS, how can they ban sleeves, they dont have RAW.
Paul, some of the footage I've seen on youtube with feds claiming WR is so disgusting that it kept me out of the sport for too long.
I now just worry about us. We lift in a fed that doesnt allow sleeves. Plenty of PTC lifters love the effects of sleeves, but its not too be.
Unlike some on here that want us to erect our own equipment on stage, we just get on with it. We abide by the rules of the fed we joined, and we lift.
Those moneys making noise and not competing are wasting their banana breath.
Lobby WPC and IPF if your not happy with the rules of the federation your not a member of or competing with. I'm sure they'll listen.
As far as the monolift goes, some comps have them, some dont, we use what they bring.
Its not Capo, its not PA, its not an old fart in a garage.
Its the World Powerlifting Congress and the IPF. Lobby them.
Oli, your comment about the IPF allowing knee sleeves is now bordering on coming from a kid with autism. The IPF allow knee wraps FFS, how can they ban sleeves, they dont have RAW.
Paul, some of the footage I've seen on youtube with feds claiming WR is so disgusting that it kept me out of the sport for too long.
I now just worry about us. We lift in a fed that doesnt allow sleeves. Plenty of PTC lifters love the effects of sleeves, but its not too be.
Unlike some on here that want us to erect our own equipment on stage, we just get on with it. We abide by the rules of the fed we joined, and we lift.
Those moneys making noise and not competing are wasting their banana breath.
Lobby WPC and IPF if your not happy with the rules of the federation your not a member of or competing with. I'm sure they'll listen.
As far as the monolift goes, some comps have them, some dont, we use what they bring.
Kyle Aaron
Active member
Pick a piece of iron up, put it down again.
How can we make something so simple so complex, I'll never understand.
I guess everyone wants to be president of their own little federation.
How can we make something so simple so complex, I'll never understand.
I guess everyone wants to be president of their own little federation.
