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Adam Coe

Adam, I've noticed that all elite lifters like yourself squat more than they deadlift (sometimes by a fair amount). However, earlier in the lifting career, many lifters seem to deadlift way more than they squat - you being an example (as told in this thread). Is this normal and why is it the case?
 
lol...........Max asked me the exact same question, and he didnt like my answer, curious to hear Adams.
 

I would say improvement in equipment; has huge carry over in the squat but not much if any in the deadlift.
 
Ben said:
I would say improvement in equipment; has huge carry over in the squat but not much if any in the deadlift.
Click to expand...

Doesn't this happen raw as well though? Could it be something to do with the grip strength being the limit in the deadlift while the squat in generally uses larger muscle groups? I'd be interested to hear the real answer too.
 
i think it could be the body type. short dudes with short arm, good for bench and squat, not ideal for dead. I'm not saying that their bad at deads just they are more efficient at the other two.

equipment aswell.
 
Cheers again Markos....


Thanks again Markos....

YEP, was a family-run (& owned...) business. If I'd have made different (read ; BETTER...) decisions in the late 80's/early 90's, it'd probably still be up-&-running (with some re-structuring etc.).

Your thread regarding the demise of Tarzan & Jane's Gym is 'bang-on' the money. I was overseas with Justine Horseman at the W.P.C Hawaii State Championships (where Ahmed Dalvean initialised C.A.P.O, after the fiasco following the 1990 National Titles @ the Sandbelt Hotel in Moorabin...). Upon our return, the gym had shut & Tom & Jane had disappeared. Mick Curran was waging some-type of war with Tom about something-or-another ; soon thereafter, himself & Dave Goldsmith opened their gym (just down the track-a-little, near the dead-end of Brunel Road). This is where the VERY early C.A.P.O competitions were held (some pics. exist ; not sure whereabouts nowadays.?). Regrettably, their gym didn't last long....

We took our own equipment upstairs at the wreckers yard, & made-up a little powerlifting gym. Myself, Justine & Nathan Garnett trained here for quite sometime, 'til I moved towards the Saint Kilda area & joined Bodyworld in Balaclava. That's probably enough 'History Lessons' for this morning.!
 
GREAT question..!


Ok ; FANTASTIC question.! (Only trouble is....I think I'll need about 10 pages of forum-space to answer...).

Could I start, please, by correcting your text : all elite lifters like yourself squat more than they deadlift ; in actual fact, MOST elite lifters can squat more than deadlift, NOT all. The great Jim Cash (former I.P.F. World Champion @ 100kg's..) & Vince Anello are examples of lifters (in the Elite Class..) who were stronger in the deadlift than squat. Just a small, but important, correction.!

Ok....now, I see from other replies in this thread that other members have put-forward theories as to why 'all elite lifters like yourself squat more than they deadlift'.

Generally speaking, novice/beginner lifters can ALWAYS deadlift more than squat. I believe the deadlift is a far more 'natural' movement (think about how many occasions, since toddler-years, you've bent-over to either pick something-up from the floor, or similar-such movements..probably about 20 billion times..??). Except for some rather unusual human beings, the squat is an uncomfortable, unnatural & oftimes painful movement. I think most would agree the squat isn't really any fun AT ALL to complete.!

When I started competitive lifting in the early 1980's, Single-Ply Squat (& Benchpress..) Suits were quite new (& VERY much the IN-THING.!). I knew nothing-at-all about Supportive Gear (in general, Knee & Wrist Wraps excluded..). One day, during training at the old Caulfield Health Club, Len (Wilson..) showed me his Squat Suit, & encouraged me to try-it-out. It was a red-coloured Single-Ply 'Elite' Brand. As Len was approximately the same physical size as me, it fitted near-perfectly....albeit VERY tight & difficult to put-on.!

However, once I wrapped my knees & tried a poundage on the Squat previously quite challenging to me, I simply could NOT believe the difference....the weight simply FLEW up.!! Astonished, I turned to Len & commented this type of suit was borderline outright-cheating.! However....Len went-on to explain the benefits, types of suits available etc., etc., etc. I was SOLD.!

Ordered a similar suit STRAIGHTAWAY when back at work. Arrived from the good 'ol U.S of A in due course....couldn't WAIT to try it.!

Rest is history, as they say....

Now....bottom-line is....the two lifts (in powerlifting...) benefiting MOST from supportive equipment are the Squat & Benchpress (take a look at the current World Records in almost every major Powerlifting Federation ; check the difference between the Squat & Deadlift in any particular Weight Division ; enough said..!). Take-away the supportive equipment, hold a Powerlifting Competition (with a mix of lifting grades i.e. Novice to Elite..) & watch the results. THUS THE IMPORTANCE OF RAW POWERLIFTING..!!

Ed Coan (when lifting in the Open Mens 100kg Division..) recorded a lifetime-best RAW Squat of 370kg (Knee Wraps included, if memory serves correctly..). His best EQUIPPED lift (in the same Weight Division..) is 437.5kg. Enough said..??

In my competitive days, Single-Ply lifting gear was the BEST available, & we ALL purchased/wore same. These were the days of Three-Lift Competitions ONLY. Most of my early lifts (in the 90kg Division..) were sub-260kg Deadlifts ; Squats (WITH Single-Ply Suits..) were far less...usually around the 200kg-mark. As I/we got better (& found more efficient ways to use supportive equipment..), the lifts increased, MOST NOTICEABLY the Squat & Benchpress.

Footnote to above : I believe, that, in my own case, if I had NOT have used supportive equipment in my own lifting career, the totals set by myself would CERTAINLY have been much lower.

Although it's too late for us 'old-timers...', the recent inception of the 'Raw Division' will CERTAINLY correct the anomaly of uneven Squat/Benchpress/Deadlifts. Good Luck to all in the RAW Division(s).!
 
Thanks for the encouragement re. huge totals.

Adam, I was wondering if the projections in the routine you outlined could be used when competing raw (ie. would 5x5 of 240 on your last week of 5 reps be enough to get you to 300 in the coming weeks without a suit)? Also how's that essay coming along?

Also how much should you be able to get (ideally) from single ply suits in each of the three lifts? Anyone else keen to share how much they get out of their suits?
 

I think macmad and Jonnie may get the most out of their gear on this forum.. Not sure of SP?
60-110kg out of a squat suit and wraps i think is pretty fcuking great. Most you will find will get around 30-40..?
I depends on how new the suit is as well as wraps, sizing etc..

Shirts are other whole kettle of fish. fury, f6 and then into the realms of katana and super katana..
Just my 5 cents
 
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I know 2 guys that bench shirted.
They both get around 50kg. They also can bench monsterous weights unshirted though.
 
Historical stuff....

Ben said:
Adam:

1. What did you weigh when you first started?
2. What got you into powerlifting?
Click to expand...

1. Weighed about 180lbs (82-odd kg) when I joined Tarzan & Janes Gym in about 1982 or '83.

2. Ok....I'd not ever heard of the sport 'powerlifting' when I/we first joined in the early 80's. I'd done some Olympic Weightlifting as a schoolboy in the mid-70's ( my father was a successful lifter in the mid-to-late 1950's/early 60's...). Lost interest Olympic Lifting/Weight Training when pubs, girls & drinking took precedence ( really STUPID decision, that was..!! ).
Sometime after we'd joined Tarzan & Janes, maybe a couple of years 'into-it', an older lifter joined & started training. We watched, almost wincing in pain, as this 'older' gentleman (Len Wilson...) squatted staggering weights (5 plates/side, on average...). He had poor style, however, somehow managed to lift incredible weights in both the squat & deadlift. On numerous occasions, he'd join our little group, chat to us & join-in our training schedule. I was quite a bit stronger in the deadlift than the other guys in our group ; one day, Len mentioned he owned a gym in Caulfield (Melbourne..) & encouraged me to watch an upcoming powerlifting competition in Footscray. I'd never heard of the sport, really wasn't at all interested, however he (Len...) kept harping-on at me, encouraging me to watch, & maybe have a lift. My father had also been training at Tarzan & Janes Gym ; we decided to go-along & watch the competition (was probably early 1983...).
The lifting I saw at that competition on that day (despite it being a local/novice/qualifying meet..) simply blew-my-mind.! I spoke with Len during & after the comp., & simply laughed-off the prospect of myself EVER being able to lift such absolutely GIGANTIC weights, of the poundages I'd just seen hoisted ; Len remarked that 'EVERYBODY HAD TO START SOMEWHERE', & that there was NO WAY I'd be expected to try & match those weights. He informed me of another upcoming novice/qualifying event, to be held at his gym soon thereafter ; subsequently, he entered me in this comp. & (YET AGAIN...) encouraged me to train consistently at his gymnasium to prepare for this competition. I applied myself strongly & consistently to the task-ahead, made GREAT gains in the squat (Len showed me some 'tricks-of-the-trade', in order to help my weakest discipline..).
Day of competition arrived, I weighed-in just under the 90kg limit & easily qualified for the 1986 Victorian Championships (broke the U/23 Benchpress Record of 175kg & totalled 622.5kg..).
Kept up a gruelling schedule, made further gains for the Victorian Championships, again weighed-in just under the 90kg limit & lifted in my first-ever State Titles in a borrowed Squat (& Soft...) Suit. Totalled 655kg, for DEAD-LAST ; saw lifters/lifting that SO-ROCKED-MY-WORLD, I knew there was NO TURNING BACK FROM THAT DAY ON.!!

Rest is history, as-they-say.....
 
SQBDL said:
Also how much should you be able to get (ideally) from single ply suits in each of the three lifts? Anyone else keen to share how much they get out of their suits?
Click to expand...

It's the age old question "how much should I get out of equipment"...the answer..."it depends"...there are so many factors (controlled and uncontrolled) that change the performance of equipment..for example a change in BW of as little as 1kg can greatly effect the fit of the equipment and the amount you get out of it...for a beginner in loose fitting equipment I reckon you can conservatively get 10 - 15% out of a basic squat suit and wraps, about the same in a basic bench shirt and little out of a dead suit for conventional pulling (sumo you'd probably get around the 10% mark)....
 
I've gotten close to 50kg out of my Metal 2ply suit and I'm still learning alot about it. Some of the big multiply lifters get hundreds of pounds out of double ply briefs and double ply suits. It gets a bit stupid when you get to that many layers of equipment though. Almost all of them squat high as a result.
 
To put some numbers out there as reference for RAW vs Equipped...I'll use American Mike “The Terminator” Tuscherer (IPF 125kg lifter) as an example. Mike is an amazing lifter both raw (knee sleeves) and single ply and someone who I hold in high regard, Mike recently hit 333/206/375 raw and earlier in the year he hit 405/275/372.5 (missing 390 dead) equipped. Based on those figures you can see that equipment gives him around 20%/30%/6% (had he hit 390 dead).

But you're not going to be able to just throw on equipment and get that sort of extra % right off the cuff as you will have to learn how to use the equipment to maximize effect and will have strength deficiancies in areas where the equipment stops working, this is why I am a big on continuing to develop raw strength in unison with equipped. Shirts and suits are NOT designed for comfort and will pinch, scratch and twist you like an unpaid Kings Cross hooker..
 
Overhead pressing ; WHAT'S THAT..??

Oliver04 said:
Adam, what was the role, if any, of overhead pressing in your training?
Click to expand...

Overhead pressing..??? WHAT'S THAT..????

HA HA HA HA..!@!@!@

But....seriously...closest thing we did was Press-Behind-Neck (seated...). This was at the old Tarzan & Janes Gym, 1980's. Got quite strong in this discipline, however, was VERY hard on the Rotator Cuffs (inside the shoulder joint..) ; numerous injuries to this sensitive area forced the eventual abandonment of any pressing movements, either seated or standing.

Quick story from the 'old days' re : strong presses etc. When I moved from Melbourne to Perth in 1994, I joined a (now-defunct...) gymnasium called World Health & Fitness (not far from where I was living, at the time...). Best analogy I could give you would be to compare this ultra hard-core facility to the Gold's Gym in the original 'Pumping Iron' movie ; ABSOLUTELY INSPIRATIONAL. Full of serious iron-athletes, bodybuilders, strongmen, powerlifters, gangsters, bikies etc., etc., etc. Monday nights were just incredible....

If you find time, google 'Grant Clemesha'. There's plenty of information available. Grant was training at World Health & Fitness regularly, & was an awesome sight. I'd rate Grant as probably one-of (if not THE...) strongest overhead pressers of our time. Prior to competition-time (bodybuilding, that is...), Grant would incorporate Standing Military Presses into his training routine. At a lean bodyweight of just-under 130kg, & 5'11", Grant was (still is...) a phenomenal physique, with incredible strength to boot.

One evening, with his training partner, Grant built-up to a fairly heavy Standing Military Press. Three-plates/side was impressive enough, three-&-one-half even more-so. With just about the entire gym stopped to watch in near-silence, Grant loaded 4-plates/side (180kg's..) onto the bar. I reckon 90% of the patrons, by this time, including myself & training buddies, had completely stopped whatever they were doing in readiness for a once-in-a-lifetime event. With the bar successfully cleaned to the shoulders, one repetition completed, a second followed by a smooth third. Looking as though the third had finished Grant, a pause for about 10 seconds, followed by one of the GREATEST fourth repetitions I've ever seen. Just completed (with a little help from his training partner, Scott Fiorini..), we stood absolutely gob-smacked, realising we'd just witnessed probably the All-Time Strongest Display of Overhead Pressing in our living memories.

This wasn't all that which Grant was (maybe still is.?) capable-of. Great squatter/benchpresser/etc. Still....that display of 4 reps. on 180kg Overhead Press stands-out as one of the BIG highlights of my whole training career.!
 
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