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A couple of cardio questions...

pistachio

pistachio

Member
For the people on this forum that know a lot more about cardio than I do, I have a few questions for you.... I posted a bit of this in my log, but not sure how many people read it, so thought I'd put it here as well.

1) I am thinking of doing about 20 minutes of HIIT cardio on the treadmill at my gym. What would be a good structure for this type of training?

1min low intensity, 45 seconds high? Bearing in mind that the treadmill takes 5-10 seconds to speed up or slow down.

2) Is it ok to do cardio before or after a workout? If so, which one is better?

The way my workouts are structured, I can manage to come in on ONE separate day to do designated cardio, but if I want to do TWO sessions, it'll have to be on a gym day.
 
Is there a concept rower at your gym?

Why two sessions?

Best time to do cardio is directly after a workout.
 
Concept rower? Is that just a rower? Yeah, I think there is a couple, not sure if they have programmed interal modes though..

Two sessions just seemed about right, one isn't very much, but I wouldn't be able to make more than 2.

My only concern with doing cardio after a workout is that I want to feed my muscles asap after breaking them down. Cardio will just delay that PWO nutrition even longer. I guess I could just sip on some BCAAs while doing my cardio?
 
pistachio said:
Concept rower? Is that just a rower? Yeah, I think there is a couple, not sure if they have programmed interal modes though..

Two sessions just seemed about right, one isn't very much, but I wouldn't be able to make more than 2.

My only concern with doing cardio after a workout is that I want to feed my muscles asap after breaking them down. Cardio will just delay that PWO nutrition even longer. I guess I could just sip on some BCAAs while doing my cardio?
Click to expand...

You'll achieve a more intense workout on the rower, most concept# rowers will have intervals, set a modest interval time and work up to a goal.

One will be enough if the intensity is high enough hence the term HIIT.

There is enough mojo in your system there to assist the stimulus provided by your weekly food intake.

The conditioning you receive from your cardio will help you work harder in your weight training.

Hold of on the BCAA, see how you go.

What do you think.
 
If I'm only doing one session per week, it avoids the question of whether to go before or after training as I'll simply do it on a non-training day. I'll be gyming Mon/Tue/Fri/Sat and Wednesday night works perfectly for a quick cardio/steam room session.

So what do you reckon in terms of duration/intervals?

20 minutes sound about right? What should the high intensity/low intensity intervals be?

I'll probably start at around 10mins or so and build it up, maybe start higher depending on what my starting cardio fitness is at.
 
I use to do rowing as a sport, and the intervals we would do would be 20 seconds on and then 10 seconds off. But that was for building our high intensity fitness. At the moment I will do 20 seconds on and 40 seconds light, and do that 10 times for a 10 minute HIIT session, then i finish off with a 10 minute light cardio on the bike. It works well.
 
Do the cardio after the workout and drink your WPC/WPI straight after the weights and before the cardio. I read something a while back about having the protein drink before cardio for whatever reason....can't remember lol....to prevent catabolic effect???

There's my expert advice bro....you can move forward confidently now
 
As Andy mentioned, do you cardio after your weight session so that way your weight training doesn't suffer.

Unless you are training fasted, the PWO/drinking BCAA's are meaningless. Even if it is fasted for that matter it ain't going to matter. http://www.jacn.org/content/24/2/134S.full

You do know the PWO is a myth right? :)http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21289204

If you want to do it, cool but it unnecessary. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19478342



Might be worth a read for all :)

Exercise improves fat metabolism in muscle but does not increase 24-h fat oxidation
 
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Max I am disappointed you did not sort out the 'feed my broken down muscles" part. (Better now)

Have a pre-workout shake instead if you are feeling like you have to have it otherwise just have a meal a little after training.
 
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When doing cardio AFTER a workout, there are 2 things I'd like to know:

1. What type of exercise is optimal?

2. What type of exercise is manageable/realistic, bearing in mind you've just done a heavy-ass squat or deadlift session? Who's gonna do 100 burpees after 8 sets of squats and 20-odd sets total workout?
 
dave said:
Max I am disappointed you did not sort out the 'feed my broken down muscles" part. (Better now)

Have a pre-workout shake instead if you are feeling like you have to have it otherwise just have a meal a little after training.
Click to expand...
Was doing some ninja editing cause I kept thinking of other studies and bases to cover :D

Sorry to disappoint, am I forgiven?
 
You are such a pussy DKD. Toughen up!

I hit the rower for 30s work 30s rest for 10 intervals. But I also do a little cardio with clients during the day like all out 5 minute bike rides and rowing with a few clients.

Sprints (non treadmill, hills if possible) and rowing are my interests. Any kind of circuit, explosive lift/movement (DB snatch, KB swings, Burpees etc) are good. Just find something you like to do and work hard at it.

Max I will let it go this time but you better pick up your game.
 
Seriously, the PWO benchmark just keeps changing, I can't keep up. So now it doesn't matter if you don't have anything after the gym? That just seems so... illogical. I thought your body was in a catabolic state after the gym? Wouldn't you want to get it out of a catabolic state asap???

I think I might just bring some BCAAs to the gym, sip away at that. At least I feel like I am doing SOMETHING to help.
 
pistachio said:
Seriously, the PWO benchmark just keeps changing, I can't keep up. So now it doesn't matter if you don't have anything after the gym? That just seems so... illogical. I thought your body was in a catabolic state after the gym? Wouldn't you want to get it out of a catabolic state asap???

I think I might just bring some BCAAs to the gym, sip away at that. At least I feel like I am doing SOMETHING to help.
Click to expand...
You haven't read any of my posts have you? :p

Read the links I posted in my first response, it explains it all.

The most important part of nutrient timing is consuming your DAILY nutrient requirements. How and when you have your DAILY nutrient requirements is irrelevant to body composition or energy balance.

Think of it like this, what would HAVE the biggest effect on body composition, if you a) consumed a PWO shake then didn't eat what you should have for the day or b) didn't have a PWO shake yet consumed what you needed for the day?

If you want to do it, all good. But as I've explained it is unnecessary :)

FYI, unless you have not been eating for 3 full days, you ain't any place near catabolic town :D

PS, I trained FASTED and don't eat or consume anything post workout until 5 hours after I've finished training............Gaining strength, building muscle etc etc. Our bodys are much smarter than we think! It will super-compensate without us telling it too :)
 
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Thanks for your kind words Dave.

I've been meaning to re-visit Fadi's lose fat/keep muscle thread...whatever it's called....he talks about HIIT and doing a 10 minute workout from memory. I read it several weeks back....i think it's an excellent read for those interested in this topic.

The other cardio-related thing that's always stuck in my mind was a thread on bb.com where this guy had a sensational transformation, developed a really nice defined physique....and he was skipping rope between sets of weights.

So that's another approach, do the cardio in amongst the weights workout. Wouldn't be ideal for the strength-orinted lifter i imagine, but it worked a treat for that guy.
 
DKD said:
When doing cardio AFTER a workout, there are 2 things I'd like to know:

1. What type of exercise is optimal?

2. What type of exercise is manageable/realistic, bearing in mind you've just done a heavy-ass squat or deadlift session? Who's gonna do 100 burpees after 8 sets of squats and 20-odd sets total workout?
Click to expand...

All i can add DKD is; You do enough to garner results.

I walk when I can
I do two weight training sessions a week including a twenty rep set of squatting
Once a week I do a circuit, a very intense circuit with weights ending with farmer's, that get me extremely huffy puffy.

If my cardio improves, my weight training improves, I get a very good cardio work with the circuit.
 
What you're doing is what i plan to do...I just need to extract the digit. I was right into cardio work when weight-loss was a priority, and it worked well, but haven't done much in recent times. I now want to work on general fitness, so yeah I've also been tossing around the idea of a circuit-style session once a week.
 
MaxBrenner said:
You haven't read any of my posts have you? :p

Read the links I posted in my first response, it explains it all.

The most important part of nutrient timing is consuming your DAILY nutrient requirements. How and when you have your DAILY nutrient requirements is irrelevant to body composition or energy balance.

Think of it like this, what would HAVE the biggest effect on body composition, if you a) consumed a PWO shake then didn't eat what you should have for the day or b) didn't have a PWO shake yet consumed what you needed for the day?

If you want to do it, all good. But as I've explained it is unnecessary :)

FYI, unless you have not been eating for 3 full days, you ain't any place near catabolic town :D

PS, I trained FASTED and don't eat or consume anything post workout until 5 hours after I've finished training............Gaining strength, building muscle etc etc. Our bodys are much smarter than we think! It will super-compensate without us telling it too :)
Click to expand...

You'll have to forgive me, I've been told my entire life, by friends, the internet, forums etc that PWO nutrition does matter. Backed up by heaps of studies, research etc.

And now the research says it doesn't matter.

I don't know what to believe anymore. It seems just about everytime I look online there is a new 'standard'.

I still find it hard to believe that eating hours after a workout is identical to having a protein shake immediately after.
 
Think of it like this. Early research leads to theories and with further research those theories have to be disregarded and the real picture comes out. It is not like the research is totally debunking having aminos available it is just that theories went a little too far as they do with limited research.

Also the net and your friends tend to enlarge theories a little bit. I have done it believing other scientists too but when evidence stares you in the face you have to take notice.

So have a pre workout shake and you will be fine. Have a meal after you workout when ever. I personally have a huge meal post workout as that is the time I need and have to eat due to work etc.
 
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