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Full body or split for beginner?

Lets see if your opinion changes when the weight gets to 165kg on the bench press.

Bent rows are infinitley more helpful for bench than chins, your argument is flawed because you dont move your body through space when you bench, no carry over sorry.

Powerclean is not a great assistance exercise, the weight is far too light, high pulls would be a better choice.

When you get strong your opinion may change, but its great that your finding out for yourself, carry on champ.

Either way you train better than 99% of the population and you obviously think about what you do.
 
PTC said:
Lets see if your opinion changes when the weight gets to 165kg on the bench press.

Bent rows are infinitley more helpful for bench than chins, your argument is flawed because you dont move your body through space when you bench, no carry over sorry.

Powerclean is not a great assistance exercise, the weight is far too light, high pulls would be a better choice.

When you get strong your opinion may change, but its great that your finding out for yourself, carry on champ.

Either way you train better than 99% of the population and you obviously think about what you do.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure about the chins vs bent rows. I've had a lot of experience with rows x2 a week and I was still a very poor bencher, so I'll try pull ups for a while and get back to you. My guess is though that the upper body mass and strength they'll add should have a lot more carryover.

As for the deadlift thats interesting - Bill Starr was a huge advocate of cleaning for a big squat and George Hechter (who had a mighty 375kg @ 110 BW) used to warm up to his work sets with power cleans. The power clean seems to have a lot of carryover.

I know you've had a lot more experience than me - I'm still trying to work out what works for me in terms of correct exercises and volume, but I'll get there.

Wendler said in a review not long ago 'believe me, if you read and comprehend these two books (starting strength and Practical Programming) and nothing else, you will be ahead of 99% of the training world', I thought I'd put this to the test and slog it out following Rippetoes programming to the T - it'll be interesting how far I'll get over the next 2-3 years.
 
The chin-up versus row is a moot point.

I see the chin-up as very important exercise for overall back development.
The rowing movement is especially good for upper back, looking at the way the scapula moves indicates this.
The shoulder is a very complex area that need more attention then push and pull, especially as we age.
 
Do them both. 2-1 pull to push.
i'm a big fan of db rows are there is less room to cheat and it stops the lower back from inhibiting heavy weights. Do a set of 20-30 and there's your grip strength training for the day done.

power cleans are a good exercise to do at the start of a squat workout as they are explosive and get the stretch/contract reflexes going.
 
The reason I prefer high pulls to cleans is that it allows much more weight yet your using the exact same muscles, your only eliminating the catch at the end, which is the technical aspect of the lift.

Dont worry, Bill Starr did millions of high pulls in his training. Not sure he did too many powercleans compared to full cleans, seeing as he was an international weightlifter. Notice he said cleaning. Very few Olympic lifters powerclean.

A full clean would have much more carryover to squats than a powerclean. Thats clearly obvious.

Problem is most lifters cant do a full clean.

So if your trying to help your deadlift, wouldnt a powerclean without the technical aspect of the catch and rack eliminated, like in the high pull, and a movement that allows you to use 10% more weight, like in the high pull, be a better assistance exercise.

I assumed that would be blatantly obvious.

As far as Olympic lifts to help your squats, yes the clean would help, but breakdon which part helps most. I'd say its clearly the front squat portion.

So if you are intent on using Olympic lifts to help your squat and deadlift, wouldnt it make sense to use the high pull and front squat, rather than the powerclean.

I love the powerclean, its why its included TWICE in my comps, but we use it purely as a lift, not as an assistance exercise.

There are better choices.
 
Alpha Moth said:
When you say chin-ups, is that palms facing towards me?
Click to expand...

Theres different kinds and they all have different emphasis - chin ups (palms facing towards you) have more bicep involvement and allow you to use more weight whilst pull ups (palms away) tend to have more of a lat emphasis.

If I were you I'd do both - pull ups on monday and chin ups on friday.
 
PTC said:
The reason I prefer high pulls to cleans is that it allows much more weight yet your using the exact same muscles, your only eliminating the catch at the end, which is the technical aspect of the lift.

Dont worry, Bill Starr did millions of high pulls in his training. Not sure he did too many powercleans compared to full cleans, seeing as he was an international weightlifter. Notice he said cleaning. Very few Olympic lifters powerclean.

A full clean would have much more carryover to squats than a powerclean. Thats clearly obvious.

Problem is most lifters cant do a full clean.

So if your trying to help your deadlift, wouldnt a powerclean without the technical aspect of the catch and rack eliminated, like in the high pull, and a movement that allows you to use 10% more weight, like in the high pull, be a better assistance exercise.

I assumed that would be blatantly obvious.

As far as Olympic lifts to help your squats, yes the clean would help, but breakdon which part helps most. I'd say its clearly the front squat portion.

So if you are intent on using Olympic lifts to help your squat and deadlift, wouldnt it make sense to use the high pull and front squat, rather than the powerclean.

I love the powerclean, its why its included TWICE in my comps, but we use it purely as a lift, not as an assistance exercise.

There are better choices.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure about the high pulls vs cleans thing, however, if you're using 50-75% of your deadlift isn't that enough to practise generating power?

tbh I don't do any movements to improve my squat but squat - I would front squat but I cant go below parallel without falling forward (if anyone could give me some tips there that would be much appreciated!)
 
For starters get a pair of weightlifting shoes. I use front squats for lifters who cant back squat, I've never seen it the other way.

Do you know what a high pull is?
 
PTC said:
For starters get a pair of weightlifting shoes. I use front squats for lifters who cant back squat, I've never seen it the other way.

Do you know what a high pull is?
Click to expand...

yeah, its a clean without the rack.

And your probably right on the cons, I've been persisting way too long. Currently i'm waiting for the new rogues to come out in 2-3 weeks.
 
Cool. Most of the serious lifters at my gym wear dedicated weightlifting (Olympic lifting) shoes. Elevated solid heel is so beneficial for correct squatting form, as well as cleaning and overhead work.
 
Rogues are a good lifting shoe. Nice choice.

Also if your falling forward in the front squat its the result of a weak core, poor flexibility (hamstrings, glutes, hip flexors) or a combination of the two.
 
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What do people think of Layne's norton routine? Is there any modified beginner version of it? I'd actually like to do strength and size, since my strength isn't that great to start with anyway.
 
My phsyio has said I should lay off my leg for the next 4-8 weeks due to some shit in my inner calves. A bit is ok, but nothing too much, so yea...
Is there any splits for an upper body workout I can follow for this time? I rotated this week just the push and pull and found I wasn't progressing that good without a rest (the leg day) on certain body parts and lifts.
Would something like this be ok?
A simple 3 day routine. Each bodypart once per week. Each exercise 2-4 sets, reps 5-8.

Back/Bis

Deadlifts
A Row
Chins or Pulldows
Bicep Curl

Chest/Tris

Bench
DB or Inc Bench
Chest Dips
Triceps Isolation

Legs(I think I can do GHR without straining my lower leg too much?)/Shoulders


GHR (Glute Ham Raise)
Military Press
DB/BB shrugs
Click to expand...
 
20tijw3.jpg

The yellow bits are welded. I'm using 50mmX50mm X 3mm

I'm not sure where I should put the parts in red. I don't want to weld them, the one at the top will be easily bolted I think... or not ?, but I'm not sure about the bottom? Any tips?
I'm leaving around 80mm between weights and Vertical support.
Can anyone tell me how far the holes on their rack apart are and how long they are in diameter?
 
most holes in power racks around 2-3 inches apart. Super cool racks have holes 1cm apart, which allows for a lot more fun when it comes to doing partial movements and setting up the squat or bench press right
 
How thick are the holes? here is what i have so far.
jj4oya.jpg


Was also thinking of something like this.... I don't want it to wobble tho. Rather first one.
j7ssjn.jpg
 
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