Understanding protein’s behaviour in order to maximise on its anabolic response

[Fadi]

Big R had asked me the following question:

@Fadi; recently you were talkingabout the benefits of spacing meals farther apart. Do you have links to someinformation on this you could post up please? Thanks.

That prompted me to write few words about it in my reply to the gentleman.

Some habits are hard to break, and that’s understandable.However with bit more knowledge on a particular subject, one may find a change in habit much easier and more acceptable to put into action. One such bodybuilding habit is the long standing instruction to eat more frequently throughout the day. Some eat a smaller amount of protein, yet feel this consistency in more frequency is what at stake here. This small article of mine is here to show you that the exact opposite of such a popular habit is where the science is at.

It has been established that to maximise on protein synthesis (muscle growth), one needs to consume about 3g of the amino acid leucine per meal. If there was ever a switch to turn on anabolism and curtail catabolism, then this amino acid would be rightly referred to as the anabolic switch amino acid. It's one of three in a group of amino acids called the branched chain amino acids (BCAA). It is the most significant of the three BCAAs, and amongst all other amino acids in term of boosting muscle growth. Leucine can stimulate protein synthesis in skeletal muscle by activating a special protein called mTOR. In a nutshell, the anabolic power of a protein depends on its Leucine content.





It’s also a fact that different protein sources have different amounts of leucine contained within them. Most animal protein sources contain around the 10% mark of leucine. Given the fact that in order to maximise on protein synthesis one needs about 3g of leucine per meal, it therefore becomes clear that an amount of 30g of protein (with its 10% of leucine) may be the minimum protein needed per meal to maximise the anabolic benefit of such a meal.





The Truth About Protein: How Much And How Often? Written By Dr. Layne Norton
http://www.simplyshredded.com/the-truth-about-protein.html

Let’s move on now to the reason behind my writing of these few words.

REFRACTORY PERIOD (meaning)

Refractory period
Noun
Physiology
Noun: refractory period; plural noun: refractory periods

1. A period immediately following stimulation during which a nerve or muscle is unresponsive to further stimulation.

So if were to follow the latest scientific findings regarding consuming the right amount of Leucine per meal, the next question would be, how often should we be eating to minimise on this refractory phenomenon, whilst at the same time maximising on protein synthesis? The answer to that question is, not too frequently and not too infrequently.

So in practical sense, I’d say eat every 4 hours instead ofevery 2 or 3 as has been the bodybuilding belief for many years. The old habit of small doses of protein in 6-8 meals would be best left to yesteryears, as it has been proven to be less effective when compared with taking in a larger amount of protein less often throughout the day.

 

[Bazza20]

I agree with this Fadi. I dropped the 6 meals a long time ago. It just didn't make sense. Research indicating the refractory period of meals on protein synthesis have been out for a while

I don't see a big acceptance like the 6+ meals a day. BB types like be different from the norm. They love to bring their 15 Tupperware containers to work.

It won't sound hardcore enough to say "bro I smash 3 meals a day and eat pretty normal"

The one thing i question is how much will large doses of roids and growth hormone change this.

 

[Bazza20]

Hey Fadi. What are your thoughts on fasting. I've done a couple of 24hour fasts, it's pretty easy and I kind of like it.

I feel it gives you back control of your diet. You realize that being hungry isn't bad and that nothing bad is going to happen if you skip the shitty food you don't like and wait a few hours until you get home and can cook a nice meal.

I'm thinking of doing a 48 hour fast just to see what it feels like.

 

[Repacked]

The one thing i question is how much will large doses of roids and growth hormone change this.

90% of what is considered 'the norm' or that you see in the media is, (and excuse the pun), geared towards or stems from athletes using PEDs. I think in recent years in particular we are lucky to see some quality research being spearheaded by people with both academic and empirical expertise changing some of the paradigms for natural body-builders; and adding to the growing body of scientific research in a field that used to rely primarily on bro-science.

Not to say that all bro-science is wrong, or wasn't based on empirical observations, or didn't work; but now there is evidence available upon which you can base, and improve you practices, and in many cases it does conflict with what we believed in the past.

Simple fact is though that if you're on, you can afford and need to increase your caloric intake compared to natural athletes, and this will often lead to increased meal frequency.

 

[spartacus]

So in practical sense, I’d say eat every 4 hours instead ofevery 2 or 3 as has been the bodybuilding belief for many years. The old habit of small doses of protein in 6-8 meals would be best left to yesteryears, as it has been proven to be less effective when compared with taking in a larger amount of protein less often throughout the day.

I love the confidence, a true guru who expresses so much certainty within his answers.

 

[Bazza20]

90% of what is considered 'the norm' or that you see in the media is, (and excuse the pun), geared towards or stems from athletes using PEDs. I think in recent years in particular we are lucky to see some quality research being spearheaded by people with both academic and empirical expertise changing some of the paradigms for natural body-builders; and adding to the growing body of scientific research in a field that used to rely primarily on bro-science.

Not to say that all bro-science is wrong, or wasn't based on empirical observations, or didn't work; but now there is evidence available upon which you can base, and improve you practices, and in many cases it does conflict with what we believed in the past.

Simple fact is though that if you're on, you can afford and need to increase your caloric intake compared to natural athletes, and this will often lead to increased meal frequency.

I'm basically just going my my knowledge of animal nutrition. When hormones are thrown into the equation it throws a lot of the standard formulas out of whack.

When you see 5 foot 8 blokes at 130kg ripped it's not hard to believe different shit is going on in their bodies to standard.

My thoughts is with such elevated hormone levels. The refractory periods for protein synthesis probably disappear and the extra food they need probably makes high frequency meals ideal for them.

 

[Stiffy]

I love the confidence, a true guru who expresses so much certainty within his answers.

I thought you were against the higher frequency of training school of thought. You do realise Layne sometimes advocates Full body splits even.

 

[spartacus]

I thought you were against the higher frequency of training school of thought. You do realise Layne sometimes advocates Full body splits even.

I was referring to Fadi's comment.

As for bodypart splits, I prefer breaking it up, but have always argued both systems work.

 

[Fadi]

The one thing i question is how much will large doses of roids and growth hormone change this.

Based on the way hormones behave, in accentuating the pathways of two primary movers of muscle hypertrophy, namely protein synthesis and glycogenesis, I can only deduce from this that the steroid user can get away with more for less. By that I mean a missed meal here and there, won't affect the results as much as if the bodybuilder was a natural. Again I say that because of the way anabolic hormones behave in our body, changing or rendering our internal environment in favour of being anti-catabolic and more anabolic.

Whilst on the subject, a steroid user won't have to train with the same amount of frequency that a non steroid user would to get the same (or even better) results. This is related to the way training creates a favourable environment of protein synthesis, something the steroid user has guaranteed himself through the exogenous use of anabolic/anti-catabolic hormones.

I am not saying the steroid user can sit watch TV and grow muscles in the process. However by taking the steroids, he has created a more favourable internal environment that is far more conducive to building muscles than breaking them down. He (the user) does not need more nutrition in the way of protein (for example) to get the job done, for the reasons I've already mentioned.

 

[Fadi]

Hey Fadi. What are your thoughts on fasting.

To reply to this question based on what I'm presuming your thoughts of fasting to be, I would be showing total arrogance through my ignorance of the subject. However, if you ask me what my thoughts are regarding the fasting that I've been involved with for the past 44 years of my life as a Muslim, then to that question I do have some answers. I know of bodybuilders who fast the Islamic way, i.e. no food, no water, no smoking, and no sex from dawn to sunset. There are many benefits to this way of fasting, however I've got a feeling that this isn't what you had in mind. Otherwise I'll be glad to share my experiences with you if you're interested Barry.

I've done a couple of 24hour fasts, it's pretty easy and I kind of like it.

If that was 24 hours of an absolute fast the way Islam prescribes, then that is not something I'm familiar with, neither would I know if it's even healthy or detrimental to your whole being. Hence, I'd rather refrain from commenting about what I know not.

I feel it gives you back control of your diet. You realize that being hungry isn't bad and that nothing bad is going to happen if you skip the shitty food you don't like and wait a few hours until you get home and can cook a nice meal.

I'm thinking of doing a 48 hour fast just to see what it feels like.

I wish you all the best with that Barry, though it would not be something I myself would do or recommend. The longest time I've ever fasted (Islamically speaking), was around 16.5 hours for the 30 days during the month of Ramadan.

 

[Fadi]

I love the confidence, a true guru who expresses so much certainty within his answers.

The only confidence this "true guru" has, lies in the certainty that he may not make it back home tonight to kiss and hug his wife and 5 daughters the way he did prior to leaving for work today.

 

[Darkoz]

The only confidence this "true guru" has, lies in the certainty that he may not make it back home tonight to kiss and hug his wife and 5 daughters the way he did prior to leaving for work today.

What do you mean Fadi?

 

[Fadi]

What do you mean Fadi?

Death is the only certainty I have Darko. It's the only certainty we all have really.

 

[Fadi]

OK, back on the topic of protein. This video clip deals with the amount of protein we can absorb at one sitting, and what exactly happens to the protein we do not absorb. To add to what Dr Layne Norton has said in this video, amino acids do more than just end up as part of forming new muscle fibre, or play a signaling role for new muscle growth.

There seems to be a concept that oxidised amino acids is a sign of insufficiency. When you begin to oxidise an amino acid, that implies that it's been wasted or degraded. We need to get that idea out of our minds according to Dr Donald Layman, as oxidising amino acids has a lot of benefits. Each amino acids has its signal and role to play, so whether it's tryptophan going into serotonin and neurotransmitters, or arginine going to nitric oxide and vascular health, or phenylalanine for CCK in the gut, or leucine for mTOR and muscles. So until plasma levels of amino acids go up, which triggers oxidation, the signals mentioned above don't work.

 

[Big Mick]

Hey Fadi. What are your thoughts on fasting. I've done a couple of 24hour fasts, it's pretty easy and I kind of like it.

I feel it gives you back control of your diet. You realize that being hungry isn't bad and that nothing bad is going to happen if you skip the shitty food you don't like and wait a few hours until you get home and can cook a nice meal.

I'm thinking of doing a 48 hour fast just to see what it feels like.

I have read some studies in the past where the author suggested that fasting weekly for a day is a great thing, I remember that it was suggested that it it extends life, but can't really comment on it as I have never personally tried it, but I have considered experimenting with it.

The closest I got was having just one meal a day, I did this for some time and found it liberating and I also lost some weight in the process, really I quite enjoyed it. I have recently been toying with the idea of going back to that eating style, also saves a lot of time.

When I did this, I would wake up and stretch having a cup of black coffee as long as I could, once hunger got bad I would have a cup of black instant coffee which I would really enjoy, then I would have a full meal of meat and salad late afternoon, and a herbal tea before bed.

I also recall my dad training German Shepherds when I was a kid, and they used to have one meal a day, and a fast every Sunday, I recall him saying that it extended the dogs health and well being and added valuable time to their life and fitness.

My own dogs have one meal a day, but no fast, I have very occasionally fasted them when they got fussy with food, stopped them being fussy in a hurry.

 

[Fadi]

Devout Muslims, much more devout than I am, fast every Monday and Thursday year long, in addition to fasting in the month of Ramadan. It's following in the footsteps of the prophet as much as is humanly possible.

From my experience, it takes two days of fasting before physiological changes begin to occur. Changes such as perspiring much less (which is extremely important in hot weather), as well as the diminishing sensation of hunger pangs...for starters.

 

[Shrek]

I have read some studies in the past where the author suggested that fasting weekly for a day is a great thing, I remember that it was suggested that it it extends life, but can't really comment on it as I have never personally tried it, but I have considered experimenting with it.

The closest I got was having just one meal a day, I did this for some time and found it liberating and I also lost some weight in the process, really I quite enjoyed it. I have recently been toying with the idea of going back to that eating style, also saves a lot of time.

When I did this, I would wake up and stretch having a cup of black coffee as long as I could, once hunger got bad I would have a cup of black instant coffee which I would really enjoy, then I would have a full meal of meat and salad late afternoon, and a herbal tea before bed.

I also recall my dad training German Shepherds when I was a kid, and they used to have one meal a day, and a fast every Sunday, I recall him saying that it extended the dogs health and well being and added valuable time to their life and fitness.

My own dogs have one meal a day, but no fast, I have very occasionally fasted them when they got fussy with food, stopped them being fussy in a hurry.

Very difficult to get sufficient calories eating just one meal. No wonder you lost weight.
For me I think 2 meals and possible one shake (if protein macros not reached) would be minimum.

 

[Big Mick]

Very difficult to get sufficient calories eating just one meal. No wonder you lost weight.
For me I think 2 meals and possible one shake (if protein macros not reached) would be minimum.

You obviously have not seen me eat

 

[Darkoz]

Death is the only certainty I have Darko. It's the only certainty we all have really.

Why, what's happened?

 

[Fadi]

Why, what's happened?

Nothing Darko, I was simply responding to a comment regarding certainty, and the fact that the only matter in life I'm confidently certain about is death. Anything else, is up for discussion and or negotiations as for its certainty. While I've got you here, how are things with you, how is your training going, any goals on the horizon, or just pleased to be lifting?