Steroids and strength gain

[spartacus]

Uh!!!, thread about strength and drugs. Powerlifting major strength sport that has various feds. Cannot really do much with Olympic lifting or strongman.

Don't get angry, just get even. Present a case.

 

[0ni]

I don't care enough about it spartacus
Take freako for example, he benched 185kg at 90kg recently
I don't care if he is natural or on three gram, 185kg is insane, this is all I care about. Not who takes what or what I could be hitting if I took such and such. I literally don't give a fuck what people are on or even if they are on anything at all

Powerlifting is a tiny sport and all the top guys take steroids or compete equipped because this is what people care about. Biggest raw meet is RUM without a doubt, not IPF raw worlds lol and it has a blend of drug free and none drug free lifters. You throw around examples like Koklaev that compete in drug tested meets. KK deadlifted 905lb and was drug tested and passed. You're constantly obsessed with what people are on and it's tragic

 

[oldcorollas]

. I literally don't give a fuck what people are on or even if they are on anything at all

you don't care because you are on... people who aren't taking might care


ps, how could you "literally" give a fuck about it?? who would you give it to?

 

[Darkoz]

Funny shit

 

[0ni]

you don't care because you are on... people who aren't taking might care


ps, how could you "literally" give a fuck about it?? who would you give it to?

I'm not debating whether or not other people care about it, clearly they do
I've never cared about it, it's stupid and you're just justifying your own failures
My bench sucks because I don't put enough effort into it, it's this simple, it's not drugs or mechanics or genetics it's work ethic

But some people have a real issue figuring this out

 

[Rugby88]

you don't care because you are on... people who aren't taking might care


ps, how could you "literally" give a fuck about it?? who would you give it to?

Why would people who aren't on care if guys are using? I have never understood why it matters...

 

[Bazza20]

Like Oni said powerlifting is a nothing sport. I find it amusing people would get on the gear for powerlifting but each to their own.

 

[oldcorollas]

probably because people who are using, and lie about it, and then say that they don7t help, and you could do the same naturally..

0ni seemed to be saying that drugged and drug free lifters can lift the same amount of weight, if they do the same amount of work..

the thread is about whether steroids give you strength gain, either for a specific muscle mass, or by increasing muscle mass greater than could be achieved naturally...

seems odd to say they do not make any difference over a drug free lifter??


0ni doesn7t care because he's been taking drugs to cheat at sports since he was a teenager

 

[Darkoz]

I'm not debating whether or not other people care about it, clearly they do
I've never cared about it, it's stupid and you're just justifying your own failures
My bench sucks because I don't put enough effort into it, it's this simple, it's not drugs or mechanics or genetics it's work ethic

But some people have a real issue figuring this out

It's genetics
You can't out drug your biology

 

[oldcorollas]

It's genetics
You can't out drug your biology

same as you can't out-drug your maximum genetic muscle mass?
or was 0ni arguing that formula was for natural lifters only???

 

[Darkoz]

same as you can't out-drug your maximum genetic muscle mass?
or was 0ni arguing that formula was for natural lifters only???

Who knows, he'll just keep telling himself "it's all me"

 

[Bazza20]

Get on the gear for 80kg bench.

So what happens when you stall at probably not much more than that.

 

[Darkoz]

Get on the gear for 80kg bench.

So what happens when you stall at probably not much more than that.

Funny shit, I'm 30 years older, never touched any gear or even supplements and still out bench a young gear head in the prime of his life

 

[oldcorollas]

tests are easy to beat
I find it hilarious how 99% of amateur competitors manage to be well above the average limit of muscle mass you can hold. Just how many genetic outliers are there?

There were a number of studies done in the pre-steroid era thankfully!
Of course they will put it down to stuff like "better training, supplements, biology knowledge, better genetics" or some shit. Which is why people now are stronger than they've ever been right? Oh no, we are weaker... lol

The WeighTrainer - Your Maximum Muscular Bodyweight and Measurements
Fat-free mass index in users and nonusers o... [Clin J Sport Med. 1995] - PubMed - NCBI
What’s My Genetic Muscular Potential? | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

inb4 someone chimes in on how they are 180cm and 100kg with their "abs showing in the morning", read the fucking paper properly before you make an idiot of yourself

I was quite the PED abuser when I competed in cycling!
Besides I've not given any advice lol. My body building advice is "get stronger with reps" which is still something a few people don't figure out somehow lol. "Nah bro, strength is just a side effect from sculpting my pecs, the fact my bench increased from 10x100kg to 1x140kg and I gained 20kg is beside the point, it was ALL the sculpting routine"

yeah sorry meant 10x140 lol

.

 

[Bazza20]

Funny shit, I'm 30 years older, never touched any gear or even supplements and still out bench a young gear head in the prime of his life

Oh my example was purely hypothetical.

 

[0ni]

probably because people who are using, and lie about it, and then say that they don7t help, and you could do the same naturally..

0ni seemed to be saying that drugged and drug free lifters can lift the same amount of weight, if they do the same amount of work..

the thread is about whether steroids give you strength gain, either for a specific muscle mass, or by increasing muscle mass greater than could be achieved naturally...

seems odd to say they do not make any difference over a drug free lifter??


0ni doesn7t care because he's been taking drugs to cheat at sports since he was a teenager

steroids will give you more muscle mass faster and more than you can hold naturally
the strength will increase along with this, you will get a bit extra depending on drugs but a natural guy can easily get to this level. Spartacus doesn't understand this though and will use examples of guys with more muscle mass than natural to prove otherwise which is stupid

That FFM thing is for natural guys only, you can very much so have a FFM index of 25 and above with steroids

 

[oldcorollas]

yeah you mentioned using steroids before, even though you were well within what you could achieve naturally (with a bti of food)

17-07-2011, 06:41 PM you said.

Natural limits being the amount of protein your body can synthesize for muscle maintenance. I've used steroids to get stronger, build muscle and train harder than I would ever have been able to off the gear, but I am still well within my body's natural limits of maintaining muscle mass. Ronnie Coleman got to about 220lbs ripped without gear iirc. Now if he had a twin that used roids to get to say 200lbs, it would have been within the bodies limit of protein synthesis for maintaining and building muscle so after coming off the gear he would have been able to maintain that muscle for as long as his body was producing natural testosterone and he kept his diet and training up and even be able to increase his mass further without steroids.

However, many people will do a cycle or two then shrink back down afterward. I think this is because their body simply isn't used to having that much mass 'naturally' because their body never gets to improve it's own natural rate of protein synthesis. So all in all it's how you take your steroids. I am a strong believer that people who want to stay on the drugs long term to do 8 weeks on, 2 weeks PCT, 8 weeks on, 2 weeks PCT etc this way you never shrink down, your body gets used to having a lot of mass and increases it's efficiency of protein synthesis for maintaining muscle mass and your HPTA always stays in check

but you were arguing that tested and non-tested feds had same records, proving that drugs do not make you stronger???

 

[0ni]

2011 was a long time ago, I've learned a lot since then
You'll see my opinion on cycling has changed as well, I still think 8 weeks on 8 off is good but if you're serious you'll low dose and stay on

but for cycling the sport it's different really, you're taking the steroids for a tonic effect, it gets hard at that level to improve everything at once. In strength sports you only have one thing to improve though, strength.

 

[vonfram88]

Does anyone actually lift weights for the reason of being stronger than they were yesterday?

"my total is bigger than yours" is such a transient thing

mind you, if someone offered me the money to train full time, better than the money I make now, and with the stated objective of out-totalling someone, I would probably abandon my moral stance and tolerate LFT's in the thousands for a short period of time to achieve it.

Wakes up from the fantasy............resumes life.

 

[spartacus]

Oni said 'You're constantly obsessed with what people are on and it's tragic'.

No, not obsessed, just interested. I have long been fascinated with sports performance, and how it can be enhanced.

Don't read it if the discussion disturbs you.