Off-topic-but-still-related-to-PL-thread

[vonfram88]

Dips, dips and more dips.

 

[callan]

lol oni asking for help, when was the last time you did something that someone suggested?
for a length of time?

 

[Spritcha]

What I mean is that I don't think any of the top PA guys would use any kind of drug prohibited on the wada list. I have heard a few people say beating the system is easy and its pointless to test. My question is always- do you actually think anyone is trying to beat the system here and is it true that it is easy. If its so easy then why do top European lifters get rolled? Are they just stupid? Im inclined to think that they get caught when they get an unexpected test from an independent testing body. If I am right this highlights a different sort of issue. What ticks me off is the suggestion that Oz lifters are cheating or that is so easy to cheat that they are all in question.
When I say drug-free I mean that they not only pass the test, but also that they are not cheating by somehow beating the test. There isn't much point asking me about how you test for certain things as I do not have a scientific background or an intimate knowledge of drugs. What I can say is that top athletes in well resourced environments get caught and I get the impression the key issue is not that the tests can be beaten, but that testing regimes are less than perfect in some places. In competitions tests are useless. OCTs are effective- or at least they appear to be.

 

[Gingerbread]

Yeah OCTs would probably be the most effective form of testing. I would say all in competition testing would be a lot easier to pass especially if you were working with team doctors to make sure everyone was in line.

As you've mentioned the biggest thing with OCTs is good fair independent testing but even then corruption can come into play. But in sports like powerlifting why would anyone go to the trouble for a sport you can't even make money off of.

 

[callan]

Yeah OCTs would probably be the most effective form of testing. I would say all in competition testing would be a lot easier to pass especially if you were working with team doctors to make sure everyone was in line.

As you've mentioned the biggest thing with OCTs is good fair independent testing but even then corruption can come into play. But in sports like powerlifting why would anyone go to the trouble for a sport you can't even make money off of.

ego

 

[Danimal]

Dips, dips and more dips.

^^^ this

My opinion is its the best thing you can do.

 

[Spritcha]

Question for you Stephen or Steven also:

My bench sucks balls, I lack the ability to grind but I also lack top end strength. I rep for 7 touch and go 87.5% of what I pause for 1. When I lift a max I have a real fucked up lift that starts fast, hits the sticking point and is a real grinder all the way to the finish. When I miss a lift it stays at the sticking point for maybe 4-5 seconds.

So I need to concentrate on my top end strength but I lack the ability to grind and need to smooth out my lift so it's a more constant speed, what is best for this? I was thinking paused sets of 3 up to a max and a few paused sets of 5 as down sets, does this sound like a logical choice? Breaking touch and go rep PBs got me very good at repping and a little increase in top end strength but not so much

I would like to see a video. I'm inclined to say pin presses, bench with chain and bench against bands/reverse bands would be worth trying- depending on where things slow down. I know Mike T says these things can also be addressed by chnaging up the rep/set arrangement.

 

[jj80]

Dips, dips and more dips.

I've been hitting a lot of PBs on presses since I added dips to bench day.

I also added incline press which I think has helped. I was weak at both (still am)

 

[vonfram88]

It might sound difficult to administer, but if national records could only be set at national level competitions, and all entrants to the national level events had to submit for testing once per month for three months prior, I think the records would stand for a while longer.

Also, there should be automatic triggers for testing in competition. For instance if a novice graded lifter suddenly makes Elite grade in less than two years, there's some incredible natural talent there that needs to be validated with some targeted testing.

 

[Spritcha]

It might sound difficult to administer, but if national records could only be set at national level competitions, and all entrants to the national level events had to submit for testing once per month for three months prior, I think the records would stand for a while longer.

Also, there should be automatic triggers for testing in competition. For instance if a novice graded lifter suddenly makes Elite grade in less than two years, there's some incredible natural talent there that needs to be validated with some targeted testing.

Yeah- I like those suggestions. In NZ you can only break national level records in national meets. However, I think out of competition tests will always be better than in competition. At the international level for the IPF the test all world record holders and at the worlds 3 in every weight class- but most get through no problems. The eastern europeans tend to get caught out with the IPF out of competition tests, rather than the ones conducted by their own country's agency. Off the top of my head the in comp tests return something like 5% failure rate, whereas out of competition its more like 16%- which is pretty high.

 

[0ni]

These are the hallmarks of a former endurance athlete. your strength curve will be difficult to reform if your formative years were as an endurance athlete.

If your strength endurance is good, maybe you should look to maximise that natural ability. The limit strength will follow and you will probably make greater gains to your limit strength this way rather than trying to re-form your strength curve.

Take a look at the old Tom Platz vs Hatfield squat contest. Hatfield only just pipped old thunder thighs on the limit strength, but who do you think was the more impressive lifter on that day?

Alright I'll continue the rep work, I think paused 5's will be just about right? Paused 6's if I hate myself?

You might want to try adding in assistace work around your lifts. Smash those triceps for example. Also try adding in some partial movements like floor presses, boards, rack presses. Some heavy DB work never goes astray as well.

Main lift + assistance

Thats what the doctor prescribes.

If I were you Id write a decent 6 week programming cycle with assistance and stick to it... then try your max effort, see if its worked. The only way to know if something has worked is to put a strict plan of attack in place... like science

Yeah, people like to exaggerate my training a little, I do 3 weeks of volume and 3 weeks of intensity. The volume cycles are 4x week for the competition lifts and around 80-85% at 9RPE. I'm a big fan of training specificity so I think close grippers and floor press will be my weapons of choice here.

How many times a week are you benching currently? And what do you workouts look like for bench?

4x a week in volume cycles which consist of 3-6 reps all paused. Intensity cycles up to 7x a week of 1-3 reps followed by a single downset of 5-20 reps. Intensity cycle is more to grease the groove and realise the gains I made in the volume cycle than actually "build" strength

Thats your problem, you need skull crushers, rope pull downs, chins and dips. Your triceps and upper back are weak.

<in b4 you reference numerous studies proving me wrong>

Arms I agree with but not upper back. I do lots of lat work and it's easily one of my strongest areas. Improving my strength here does not improve results in any lift so I think the strength there is fairly surplus. Arms however I do get improved results alongside improved measurements. I curl but haven't done tricep work in a while apart from a high volume of bench press. I'll probably add in some ultra high rep band pushdowns every night before I go to sleep for a while alongside the heavy tricep work to push my arm measurement up a bit

 

[Oznut]

Thats your problem, you need skull crushers, rope pull downs, chins and dips. Your triceps and upper back are weak.

<in b4 you reference numerous studies proving me wrong>

I may not have the biggest chest going around but i've got a big back and big triceps, I've repped 120kg in the bench.

 

[Oznut]

Dips, dips and more dips.

Dips are something that I really struggle with but something I aim to demolish. Goals are good, smashing them is better.

 

[0ni]

lol oni asking for help, when was the last time you did something that someone suggested?
for a length of time?

I have always listened to reason, I get annoyed when people say stupid shit like you can't train with a high frequency or a high volume. Hamburgular, Vonfram, Sticky, Bazza20 have all improved my best performance in a lift with their advice. There are others that give good advice obviously but these people have added to my best performance and get the mention. If things go to plan then there will be 3-4 others added to this list lol

What I mean is that I don't think any of the top PA guys would use any kind of drug prohibited on the wada list. I have heard a few people say beating the system is easy and its pointless to test. My question is always- do you actually think anyone is trying to beat the system here and is it true that it is easy. If its so easy then why do top European lifters get rolled? Are they just stupid? Im inclined to think that they get caught when they get an unexpected test from an independent testing body. If I am right this highlights a different sort of issue. What ticks me off is the suggestion that Oz lifters are cheating or that is so easy to cheat that they are all in question.
When I say drug-free I mean that they not only pass the test, but also that they are not cheating by somehow beating the test. There isn't much point asking me about how you test for certain things as I do not have a scientific background or an intimate knowledge of drugs. What I can say is that top athletes in well resourced environments get caught and I get the impression the key issue is not that the tests can be beaten, but that testing regimes are less than perfect in some places. In competitions tests are useless. OCTs are effective- or at least they appear to be.

I'm sorry but I think I came off on the wrong side of the argument here. My view is that it's naive to think there is not drug use and naive to think that there must be some drug use in sport. Essentially I am agnostic to the situation and think both sides are pretty silly. No evidence = no belief

I would like to see a video. I'm inclined to say pin presses, bench with chain and bench against bands/reverse bands would be worth trying- depending on where things slow down. I know Mike T says these things can also be addressed by chnaging up the rep/set arrangement.

I'll get some videos up. I have one up but my technique has changed since then so it's pretty moot. I'll record the first and last sets of a few different rep ranges as I'm doing volume at the moment and hopefully that gives a good idea. The chains in my gym are suitable only for deadlifts due to lack of feeder chain but I have mini bands. Don't really like using them as I doubt their effectiveness but I'll give it a go for a month.

I've been hitting a lot of PBs on presses since I added dips to bench day.

I also added incline press which I think has helped. I was weak at both (still am)

Dips would be a good addition then. Would probably put these on the intensity cycles as my dropset after benching. Do people think 8's are a good range here?

 

[jj80]

I just did bodyweight dips after bench, I think I could only manage 6-7 at first at 110kg bodyweight. I've only been doing them a month or so.

My increase in strength recently though is probably due just as much to eating like a pig over october/nov/dec and gaining 10kg

 

[vonfram88]

I just did bodyweight dips after bench, I think I could only manage 6-7 at first at 110kg bodyweight. I've only been doing them a month or so.

My increase in strength recently though is probably due just as much to eating like a pig over october/nov/dec and gaining 10kg

Now if you sling a 20kg plate around your 110kg body and set yourself the challenge of 7 or 8 reps, I guarantee you will have a 140kg+ bench at the end of it.

 

[vonfram88]

Dips would be a good addition then. Would probably put these on the intensity cycles as my dropset after benching. Do people think 8's are a good range here?

Keep adding the weight until you can barely manage 6, then swing and cheat like a scoundrel to grind out another one or two reps. It's more than a triceps exercise when the weight gets heavy and has perfect carry-over into the bench press.

 

[0ni]

Strong chicks are hot

 

[Darkoz]

They say it takes courage to come out of the closet Oni

 

[0ni]

My sexual preferences are better than yours
I still think an androgenic female is better than the emasculated males you see floating around gyms