Biggest Nutrition Myths

[PTC]

Right back at ya. Unfortunately, you are the one that's misinformed .

Guess who makes a living out of helping people achieve their goals?

No advertising EVER, no business cards, nothing.

Do you think I would have a single client if I was wrong.

I love reading the alternatives to what work, I like you guys putting this out there.

Its fantastic for my business.

Interesting case.

Two girls, Annie and Dimi. Both weighed 90kg+ when they started. Annie got to 72kg and Dimi 82kg training with me.

For different reasons, they train elsewhere, but together. Annie totally gets my info, she is 70kg. Dimi never did understand it, eats 3 meals a day. She is 95kg.

Dimi resisted at every step in regards to processed carbs. Annie doesnt touch them. She walked into PTC today and my female clients were blown away by her appearance. She is 6' tall. Dimi is 5'3"

Keep peddling your stuff big fella, and thank you.

 

[Goosey]

You asked for opinions and received them. A consensus wasn't reached and we didn't join hands and sing Kumbaya. That's typical.

Bro, it seems you are asking for validation.

 

[bro]

Bro, your posts really do have the feel of someone who's read a lot of books, but not done a lot himself, or coached others to do the same.

Long ago I suggested we put our lifts or other achievements in our sigs, and I stand by that. Because in the end, results count.

There are many things which sound good on paper but don't work so well in practice. So that's where I'm coming from with 3 vs 6 meals etc. Whatever the thermogenic effect or other physiology of it, it helps people control their portion size better to have multiple small meals. We have to look at solutions that work in the real world.

Yeah, sure, if person A had 2,400kcal made up of 60/20/20 pro/fat/cho they'd get different results from the person who had 2,400kcal made up of 20/20/60 pro/fat/cho. But the simple fact is that nobody is going to weigh and calculate everything like that. So we need real world solutions. As the saying goes, if it's stupid and it works it ain't stupid - but by the same token, if it's smart and it doesn't work, it isn't smart. So let's talk results.

What is your experience in working with people and giving them solutions? On what are you basing your article? Your reading? I hope not, I can read articles myself, I don't need you to summarise them.

Put your lifts and coaching experience in your sig, we'll know how to take your words then.

Why does my success matter for any of this? No, my lifts are not impressive. No I have not coached anyone. But it's not because I believe a calorie is a calorie, which is what this thread is about, it's because i'm wasting my time cutting when I don't have much muscle. Oliver04 believes in the same stuff and he has impressive lifts. So what? Would it be different if he made this thread? I'll keep on a log on this site when I finish my cut and go back to strength gaining, which will be on the 28th of February.

Anyway, in regards to 3 vs 6 meals. Like I said before, if it helps you keep portions under control, go for 6 meals. However, many people, myself included feel hungrier with 6 meals compared to 3 or 4. Also, the thermogenic effect of food has nothing to do with the amount of meals you eat, it's to do with the calories and macros you eat, with protein having the highest thermogenic effect.

As for your example of two people eating the same amount of calories but different macros, yes, it would be different, BECAUSE YOU CHANGED THE PROTEIN. Why do I have to keep repeating this? In my example, both scenarios involved the same amount of protein.

Yes, this stuff I wrote is a summary of my reading. And what's wrong with that? Every article is a summary of reading. If you have a problem with a specific point, I'll bring out the articles and studies for you.

Right back at ya. Unfortunately, you are the one that's misinformed .

Guess who makes a living out of helping people achieve their goals?

No advertising EVER, no business cards, nothing.

Do you think I would have a single client if I was wrong.

I love reading the alternatives to what work, I like you guys putting this out there.

Its fantastic for my business.

Interesting case.

Two girls, Annie and Dimi. Both weighed 90kg+ when they started. Annie got to 72kg and Dimi 82kg training with me.

For different reasons, they train elsewhere, but together. Annie totally gets my info, she is 70kg. Dimi never did understand it, eats 3 meals a day. She is 95kg.

Dimi resisted at every step in regards to processed carbs. Annie doesnt touch them. She walked into PTC today and my female clients were blown away by her appearance. She is 6' tall. Dimi is 5'3"

Keep peddling your stuff big fella, and thank you.

Markos, I will repeat myself again. You have success as a coach because none of the stuff you do such as 6 meals per day and not letting people eat processed carbs is a bad thing. I never said it was. I just said that there isn't a benefit of 6 meals per day, and different people have better food control with different amounts of meals per day. And they should find what suits them the best rather than everyone having to follow 6 meals per day.

Annie lost weight after she stopped eating processed carbs. That's a really good way of reducing calories, hence why the weight came off. Dimi obviously hasn't reduced her calories. Other people lose weight with 3 meals a day. I have. Both work.

 

[eje]

Right back at ya. Unfortunately, you are the one that's misinformed .


Thanks PTC, was thinking bout dropping from 7 to 3 meals a day after I read this post, lol. Was also thinking of taking back up my old habbits of fruit loops and pavlova, choc cake, any cake, mint slice biscuits, red frogs, coke etc etc...the one's that had me barely able to do one chin up and unable to bench beyond 35kg (hit the 60kg x 3 this morning).

Do I have this right? According to this post I could drop 4 meals and my body should feel the same as I do now ie: be fuelled up enough to train/lift 4 times a week and build muscle/strength/condition.

 

[Kyle Aaron]

That Lyle McDonald believes in something actually makes me doubt it more. He told us it was impossible for someone to put on 10-20kg of lean mass in 6 months, and impossible for a healthy young adult male to achieve a 140kg squat in the same time; when confronted with examples, he exploded in profanity and told everyone to fuck off, prohibiting further discussion of it on his forum. Which is to say, he has never coached anyone to do those things. Put another way, he's told us he's not a very good strength coach. Which is okay, not everyone needs to be a strength coach - but if they're going to offer opinions about what are possible strength gains, they probably should be. However, Lyle stands by his incompetence and refuses discussion on the topic. So if he believes in it, this makes it not certain but more likely to be a stupid idea that does not actually work.

Why does my success matter for any of this? No, my lifts are not impressive. No I have not coached anyone.

Your lifts or other achievements - I'm happy if you've never lifted but have run marathons or whatever - matter because even if you've never coached and tried out your ideas on anyone else, you could at least have tried them out on yourself.

The most important question to ask of any proposed solution is,
"Does it work?"

If the answer is,
"I dunno, I've never tried, nor have I tried it on anyone else"

then don't expect us to be very interested.

If your ideas have led to you or someone else going from 18 to 10% bodyfat, or improving their marathon time from 3hr20' to 3hr10', or their squat from 20 to 60kg, or their deadlift from 200 to 240kg, or their sports performance from "sitting on the bench" to "playing lead striker," or whatever else you care to talk about, then your ideas will be of interest to us.

If it's just something you read somewhere, mate, we can read it ourselves. We don't need your summary.

We're interested in results. If your ideas have got neither you nor anyone else results, we're not that interested.

 

[bro]

Thanks PTC, was thinking bout dropping from 7 to 3 meals a day after I read this post, lol. Was also thinking of taking back up my old habbits of fruit loops and pavlova, choc cake, any cake, mint slice biscuits, red frogs, coke etc etc...the one's that had me barely able to do one chin up and unable to bench beyond 35kg (hit the 60kg x 3 this morning).

Do I have this right? According to this post I could drop 4 meals and my body should feel the same as I do now ie: be fuelled up enough to train/lift 4 times a week and build muscle/strength/condition.

Stop taking things to the extreme. If you increase your calories and reduce your protein (ie, eating all your fruit loops and choc cake) you will gain fat.

However, if you reduce your meal frequency from 7 to 3 or 4 and STILL eat the same number of calories and protein and same food during the day, then you will see no difference. Well according to me anyway. And about half the people in this thread. But not the other half.

But that doesn't mean you have to reduce your meal frequency, only if eating less often and worrying about food less often during the day will make your life easier.

That Lyle McDonald believes in something actually makes me doubt it more. He told us it was impossible for someone to put on 10-20kg of lean mass in 6 months, and impossible for a healthy young adult male to achieve a 140kg squat in the same time; when confronted with examples, he exploded in profanity and told everyone to fuck off, prohibiting further discussion of it on his forum. Which is to say, he has never coached anyone to do those things. Put another way, he's told us he's not a very good strength coach. Which is okay, not everyone needs to be a strength coach - but if they're going to offer opinions about what are possible strength gains, they probably should be. However, Lyle stands by his incompetence and refuses discussion on the topic. So if he believes in it, this makes it not certain but more likely to be a stupid idea that does not actually work.


Your lifts or other achievements - I'm happy if you've never lifted but have run marathons or whatever - matter because even if you've never coached and tried out your ideas on anyone else, you could at least have tried them out on yourself.

The most important question to ask of any proposed solution is,
"Does it work?"

If the answer is,
"I dunno, I've never tried, nor have I tried it on anyone else"

then don't expect us to be very interested.

If your ideas have led to you or someone else going from 18 to 10% bodyfat, or improving their marathon time from 3hr20' to 3hr10', or their squat from 20 to 60kg, or their deadlift from 200 to 240kg, or their sports performance from "sitting on the bench" to "playing lead striker," or whatever else you care to talk about, then your ideas will be of interest to us.

If it's just something you read somewhere, mate, we can read it ourselves. We don't need your summary.

We're interested in results. If your ideas have got neither you nor anyone else results, we're not that interested.

As far as my achievements go, I've dropped from low 20%s body fat, say 22-23%? to around 13-14% where I'm at now. I was hoping to get down to 12%. I have 4 visible abs when lighting isn't too bad. Nothing really spectacular.

As far as Lyle Mcdonald goes, he was wrong about the kid doing the 140kg squat and he admitted it. But he's not wrong about how much muscle the guy put on. His fat level was much higher than what RIp calculated it to be, and plus he would of had several KGs of extra water and glycogen from the 8000 calories a day.

See the thing about real world results is, I can say eating 20 times a day worked for me. But does that mean it worked any better than 3 times?

 

[knoted]

You make good points Kyle, and Lyle is a douche (although I think still a knowledgeable douche). I'd like to see more examples of people putting on 10kg of muscle in 6 months though. I managed about 7 kg myself, so I don't think 10th kg is outside the realm of possibility, but it wouldn't be common without some ergonic aids.

 

[eje]

"Stop taking things to the extreme. If you increase your calories and reduce your protein (ie, eating all your fruit loops and choc cake) you will gain fat."

Yes, I will gain fat...and lose weight and muscle...and feel like shit...and look like shit....and lift like shit...my brain won't work...i get anxious, emotional and edgy...
AWESOME! There are no benifits for me to eating less than 7 times per day.

"But that doesn't mean you have to reduce your meal frequency, only if eating less often and worrying about food less often during the day will make your life easier."

Eating right, keeping to routine, eating basically the same thing at the same time every day, mastering my diet and progressing in my training....that's whats going to make my entire life easier in the long run, not taking the short term easy way out now...it's all about self-discipline.
Each to their own I spose.

 

[bro]

You make good points Kyle, and Lyle is a douche (although I think still a knowledgeable douche). I'd like to see more examples of people putting on 10kg of muscle in 6 months though. I managed about 7 kg myself, so I don't think 10th kg is outside the realm of possibility, but it wouldn't be common without some ergonic aids.

To be honest, I'd buy 10kg in 6 months. Given how much he was eating and how much weight he put on.

However this is what Rip claimed: "Gain in LBM in 11 weeks: 31.27 lbs., or 2.84 lbs./week"

That's 14kg of muscle in less than 3 months.

 

[Dancelot]

I wonder if those studies took into account human behaviours over a long period of time.

For example, I can probably do okay on paper with 3 meals a day vs 6, or not eating breakfast. But that'd mean a big lunch for me, and a big lunch would lead to me feeling sleepy & lethargic for the whole afternoon at work, dragging down my productivity as well as my weight training after work. I won't last long eating like that.

It's also a hell lot easier for me to avoid processed & starchy carbs than learning to count calories (which I suck at and have no desire to do).

A nutrition plan that theoretically works but is hard or impossible to integrate into my lifestyle is an useless one.

 

[unt0uchable]

Everyone here's missing the point. Bro isn't arguing against the lifestyles and nutritional philosophies that many here seem to take (including myself). He isn't asserting that 3 meals/day is easier to follow that 6 meals/day, rather, he's dispelling the myth that one lifestyle has advantages over the other option. He's stating that physiologically (not psychologically) the difference between these lifestyles is 0

Which of these eating habits is easier to follow/stick to should be the topic of another thread

 

[Goosey]

He is searching for validation, which is a mistake.

 

[unt0uchable]

He is searching for validation, which is a mistake.

What makes you say this? Perhaps he's trying to help others who've been blindly eating 6 times a day and hating it

Imo, what looks like validation is only a defense from the multitude of people on his back

 

[bro]

I wonder if those studies took into account human behaviours over a long period of time.

For example, I can probably do okay on paper with 3 meals a day vs 6, or not eating breakfast. But that'd mean a big lunch for me, and a big lunch would lead to me feeling sleepy & lethargic for the whole afternoon at work, dragging down my productivity as well as my weight training after work. I won't last long eating like that.

It's also a hell lot easier for me to avoid processed & starchy carbs than learning to count calories (which I suck at and have no desire to do).

You are right, I am mostly talking about physiological effects, not psychological. But the thing is, psychological effects are very different from person to person. I've lost a bunch of weight eating 6 meals a day. Each meal would have like 350 calories, and after eating this tiny amount I wouldn't feel satisfied. I've lost weight eating 3 meals a day, and I felt much more satisfied after each meal and less hungry during the day. For others, it might be the opposite. But you don't really know until you try it.

He is searching for validation, which is a mistake.

What do you mean I am searching for validation? I have made my mind up for what is right. And I might be wrong about somethings. I will change my opinion when someone shows me articles and studies that disprove what I'm saying.

The goal of the thread is to persuade. I would like to change n00bs and PTC's opinion. It probably won't happen though.

I'd like to help people to not have to eat 8 times a day if that is a pain in the ass for them. As they can make the same gains eating 3 times per day, and it might make them happier then I'm satisfied. If eating many times in a day is what makes them happier, I'm also satisfied.

 

[Christian]

What makes you say this? Perhaps he's trying to help others who've been blindly eating 6 times a day and hating it

Imo, what looks like validation is only a defense from the multitude of people on his back

Exactly you have already fallen for it.. For example

The argument is based on thermogenic effect on meals 6vs3 however there are other arguments for 6 that make it more optimal that have been stated. So the point is invalid and not relivent if you look at 1 side I.e thermogenics yeah it might be the same, that doesn't therefore mean the rest of the arguments are invalid.

 

[bro]

Exactly you have already fallen for it.. For example

The argument is based on thermogenic effect on meals 6vs3 however there are other arguments for 6 that make it more optimal that have been stated. So the point is invalid and not relivent if you look at 1 side I.e thermogenics yeah it might be the same, that doesn't therefore mean the rest of the arguments are invalid.

The only other argument that makes sense is that for some people it might be easier for portion control and for some people it might make them less hungry.

But the point is, as far as hunger and portion control is concerned, it's exactly the opposite for other people.

 

[Christian]

The only other argument that makes sense is that for some people it might be easier for portion control and for some people it might make them less hungry.

But the point is, as far as hunger and portion control is concerned, it's exactly the opposite for other people.

Makes sense ? To what you... Just because you cant comprehend something does not make it irrelivent.

 

[unt0uchable]

Exactly you have already fallen for it.. For example

The argument is based on thermogenic effect on meals 6vs3 however there are other arguments for 6 that make it more optimal that have been stated. So the point is invalid and not relivent if you look at 1 side I.e thermogenics yeah it might be the same, that doesn't therefore mean the rest of the arguments are invalid.

No I haven't fallen for it yet, not until I do my own research. The argument of 3 vs. 6, thermogenics etc isn't relevant to what i'm stating - my point is that people in this thread are arguing the wrong thing

Hunger control etc are all psychological factors which shouldnt be acknowledged in this thread (although they are important factors which can't be neglected)

 

[bro]

Makes sense ? To what you... Just because you cant comprehend something does not make it irrelivent.

So what are the other arguments? How much protein can be absorbed in a single meal?

Here's an article referencing studies which disproves that: Is there a limit to how much protein the body can use in a single meal? | Wannabebig

Staying in an anabolic state during the course of the whole day? Read this: Meal Frequency for Mass Gains | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

 

[Bazza20]

Right back at ya. Unfortunately, you are the one that's misinformed .

Guess who makes a living out of helping people achieve their goals?

No advertising EVER, no business cards, nothing.

Do you think I would have a single client if I was wrong.

I love reading the alternatives to what work, I like you guys putting this out there.

Its fantastic for my business.

Interesting case.

Two girls, Annie and Dimi. Both weighed 90kg+ when they started. Annie got to 72kg and Dimi 82kg training with me.

For different reasons, they train elsewhere, but together. Annie totally gets my info, she is 70kg. Dimi never did understand it, eats 3 meals a day. She is 95kg.

Dimi resisted at every step in regards to processed carbs. Annie doesnt touch them. She walked into PTC today and my female clients were blown away by her appearance. She is 6' tall. Dimi is 5'3"

Keep peddling your stuff big fella, and thank you.

I'm not doubting what your doing at PTC works Markos.

With regards to the example you gave. Can i say I totally agree with it. When i stopped eating processed carbs I lost weight straight away. My thoughts on what was happening is that processed carbs are so easy to underestimate how much your eating and then so easy to overeat them. It's easy to smash a few hundred grams of processed carbs in a meal, not so easy to do that with fruit and veg. The overall effect of cutting out processed carbs is just lowering your daily carbs and calories.

My thoughts anyway.