Totally agree, I think others get confused though.
I don't know about you but I'd rather eat x3-4 a day including things like bread, pasta and rice during evening meals like a normal person, even if it means sacrificing a whole 0.2lb of muscle.
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Totally agree, I think others get confused though.
I don't know about you but I'd rather eat x3-4 a day including things like bread, pasta and rice during evening meals like a normal person, even if it means sacrificing a whole 0.2lb of muscle.
CaT_SPeW
extra crispy
word.
Yep, I just added 5 more to the original post, including some of the contributions from Oli.
Sure, but the point of this stuff is that it really won't be sacrificing muscle!
So funny how many people think because something is written its right lol
A calorie is a calorie.
Anyone of you guys that agree with all this stuff, I'd like you to perform an experiment for me.
Find your maintenance level of calories, lets say 2500, then simply eat 2500 calories of Tim Tams just before bed, just one meal a day.
Please post pics.
The reason for multiple meals, seeing how nobody questioned nutrient timing, is to keep the body in an anabolic state via a positive nitrogen balance, not because of how much protein your body absorbs in one sitting.
Nutrient timing is critical ion the success of building and even maintaining muscle.
I didnt think there was anyone left on this forum who believes a calorie is a calorie, except for Fat Dave.
Fat Dave is obese. Very obese.
Dave eats 3 x day(sometime), breakfast, lunch and dinner. his biggest meal is lunch, he normally skips breakfast, has a big lunch, dinner late at night.
No shake or anything after training, nothing to start rebuilding muscle and repair.
He gets fatter by the week. I doubt he eats 3000 calories a day, not enough to maintain 116kg. Why does he get fatter.
More muscle has been built by BB's eating multiple meals a day than EVERY other gimmick diet out there combined.
Tell people what they want to hear, they'll believe it.
Threads like this are great for my business, keep Australia Fat I say lol
I'm not having a go at you bro, just the many ill informed who tag along with zero knowledge of how the body actually works.
The average Australian eats 3 meals a day. Australia is the most obese country per capita in the world. Our gyms are packed, our streets littered with joggers, PT's qualified by the thousands.
A calorie is a calorie lol
Try getting all your calories from beer lol
A calorie is a calorie.
Anyone of you guys that agree with all this stuff, I'd like you to perform an experiment for me.
Find your maintenance level of calories, lets say 2500, then simply eat 2500 calories of Tim Tams just before bed, just one meal a day.
Please post pics.
The reason for multiple meals, seeing how nobody questioned nutrient timing, is to keep the body in an anabolic state via a positive nitrogen balance, not because of how much protein your body absorbs in one sitting.
Nutrient timing is critical ion the success of building and even maintaining muscle.
I didnt think there was anyone left on this forum who believes a calorie is a calorie, except for Fat Dave.
Fat Dave is obese. Very obese.
Dave eats 3 x day(sometime), breakfast, lunch and dinner. his biggest meal is lunch, he normally skips breakfast, has a big lunch, dinner late at night.
No shake or anything after training, nothing to start rebuilding muscle and repair.
He gets fatter by the week. I doubt he eats 3000 calories a day, not enough to maintain 116kg. Why does he get fatter.
More muscle has been built by BB's eating multiple meals a day than EVERY other gimmick diet out there combined.
Tell people what they want to hear, they'll believe it.
Threads like this are great for my business, keep Australia Fat I say lol
I'm not having a go at you bro, just the many ill informed who tag along with zero knowledge of how the body actually works.
The average Australian eats 3 meals a day. Australia is the most obese country per capita in the world. Our gyms are packed, our streets littered with joggers, PT's qualified by the thousands.
A calorie is a calorie lol
Try getting all your calories from beer lol
That's not really fair Markos. Maybe Tim Tam's and protein shakes...
The point is that assuming you are eating the same things like meat and veg, it doesn't matter if it's 3 meals or 8. I've seen enough studies and the anecdotal evidence from intermittent fasting is enough to convince me that it doesn't matter. We only eat 3 meals per day in the Army, but I've seen plenty of lean (sort of) strong guys.
You can definitely get more food in eating more often, so if you are struggling to get enough food in, I'd do it even if it doesn't do anything for the metabolism.
Nutrient timing around training, I'm with you though. I consume about 2L of milk in the hours after training.
I think in general you've got to be careful about the details that competitive body builders use. There is (and has been) some complete quacks.
Shrek
Fucked up Kunce
Markos nailed it.
keep your body in a positive nitrogen balance to stay anabolic, this is achieved by frequent meals. it also keeps blood sugar levels stable rather than increasing and dropping like a lead balloon.
I wonder why BB's preparing for a comp eat 8 times per day?
keep your body in a positive nitrogen balance to stay anabolic, this is achieved by frequent meals. it also keeps blood sugar levels stable rather than increasing and dropping like a lead balloon.
I wonder why BB's preparing for a comp eat 8 times per day?
Kyle Aaron
Active member
Carbs make you fat. No, excess calories make you fat.
This is true. However, it's really easy to eat a lot of carbs. Lemonade's a good example, it's easy to drink 1lt with 100g sugar, or eat a couple of Mars bars - harder to eat a chunk of steak or couple handfuls of nuts. As well, though we have essential fats and essential proteins, there are no essential carbohydrates. So if you want to cut overall energy intake, it's often easiest to cut carbs.
As well, it takes more energy to digest (say) 1,000kcal of steak or 1,000kcal of broccoli than 1,000kcal of white sugar. So the source does matter.
Eating 6 meals per day is better than 3. There is no metabolic advantage of eating more frequently.
Also true. However, if someone wants to control how much they eat, it's easier to eat a bit more or a bit less in several small meals than a bit more or less in a few big ones.
Eating more food at night/more carbs at night will make you fat. Once again, it doesn't matter when you eat.
Physiologically true. However, what we find is that people who have a large breakfast tend to eat less overall than people who miss breakfast and eat a large dinner. This makes sense: miss breakfast, have a light lunch, by dinner time you're starving and stuff yourself. Thus, those trying to lose weight ought to ensure they eat a bigger breakfast.
As well, having some food in you helps training. So unless you're working out at 9pm, you'll do well to have a big breakfast.
And so on. Most of what you've written is physiologically true, however diet and exercise go beyond the biochemistry into human behaviour, and we have to consider that stuff. The best routine is the one you stick to, for example.
This is true. However, it's really easy to eat a lot of carbs. Lemonade's a good example, it's easy to drink 1lt with 100g sugar, or eat a couple of Mars bars - harder to eat a chunk of steak or couple handfuls of nuts. As well, though we have essential fats and essential proteins, there are no essential carbohydrates. So if you want to cut overall energy intake, it's often easiest to cut carbs.
As well, it takes more energy to digest (say) 1,000kcal of steak or 1,000kcal of broccoli than 1,000kcal of white sugar. So the source does matter.
Eating 6 meals per day is better than 3. There is no metabolic advantage of eating more frequently.
Also true. However, if someone wants to control how much they eat, it's easier to eat a bit more or a bit less in several small meals than a bit more or less in a few big ones.
Eating more food at night/more carbs at night will make you fat. Once again, it doesn't matter when you eat.
Physiologically true. However, what we find is that people who have a large breakfast tend to eat less overall than people who miss breakfast and eat a large dinner. This makes sense: miss breakfast, have a light lunch, by dinner time you're starving and stuff yourself. Thus, those trying to lose weight ought to ensure they eat a bigger breakfast.
As well, having some food in you helps training. So unless you're working out at 9pm, you'll do well to have a big breakfast.
And so on. Most of what you've written is physiologically true, however diet and exercise go beyond the biochemistry into human behaviour, and we have to consider that stuff. The best routine is the one you stick to, for example.
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Your body will stay anabolic when calories in are greater than calories out. A bigger meal will just sit in your system digesting longer than a smaller one.
As far as blood sugar goes, read this: Better Blood Glucose with Lower Meal Frequency | Intermittent fasting diet for fat loss, muscle gain and health
Bodybuilders eat 8 meals a day because they don't know any better. But what about Layne Norton? He says he thinks eating every 4-6 hours is better than every 2-3. If we take average of 4-6, that's 5 and assume 8 hours sleep, that's 4 meals in one day. And of course, there's Martin Berkhan, the IF guy, who while doesn't compete, is pretty big and shredded to the bone.
See, I'm not saying eating more frequently is any worse for muscle gains and fat loss, I'm just saying that it's not really better. So that if you prefer to lead a lifestyle of 3 or 4 meals per day, you can do so without worrying about your muscles falling off.
And you're right that not eating carbs after 6pm helps people lose weight. As does eating smaller meals as does eating less carbs. And I never said it doesn't. But people are not understanding that the cause is just less calories. So those of us who can control calories can enjoy pasta for dinner or carbs in our non Pre/Post workout meals. Or don't have to think about their next meal all day.
However, your point about a steak taking more calories to process, while being correct, the biggest factor in determining TEF, the thermogenic effect of food is the protein contents. So, with equal protein contents, TEF would be about the same. And I've said many times, calories and protein, not just calories.
In addition, eating 3 times per day is a actually more satiating for many people on a diet than 6 times per day. For me, I feel less hungry eating 3 bigger meals. All of the people who practise IF feel the same way. Some studies have even shown better hunger control with less meal frequency, but I believe others have shown the opposite, so it's probably dependant on the person. Find what works best for you.
Christian
Active Member, June10MOTM
This is a bit rediculous.. You are talking about the energy needs of muscle at rest...
Once that muscle is engaged in activity its a different story. Why isnt his mentioned?
The extra muscle allows you to achieve activity that would not be able to happen if you didnt have it... Look at when fadi was consuming 16000 cal per day. Muscle allowed him to do this..
Also 1kg of muscle compared to 1kg of fat have very different effects on the body.
Yes but there are other reasons to eat more frequently... such as blood sugar regulation and increasing nitrogen retention.
Naturally these things are more important for people training as there is greater stimulis and more need for nitrogen retention however it is still important.. (See graph)
The carb debate is another story... I know people who gain fat simply eating carbohydrates under maintenance as well as other food.. Switch macros up and they are fine.. I am one for example. I cant eat the governments reccomended 24 slices of bread a day and loose fat doesnt happen.
Every person is difference and insulin/ fasting blood glucose and insulin resistance do effect fat loss its ignorant to think otherwise when you look at insulins role in fat storage.
I dont have a problem with your posts i dont know what morgan is winging about. But when people say things like a calorie is a calorie it doesnt matter that is simply misguided and an uneducated statement.
As I said, it's about calories and protein. If they are the same, it doesn't really matter how the rest of your diet looks. Now, look. If eating protein shakes and tim tams all day are going to make you feel like shit, you will have shit workouts and skip workouts so indirectly you will put on less muscle because your workout intensity would decrease. However, if you throw in some tim tams into your diet and remove some fruit of equal calories, it wouldn't make a difference.
A bigger meal will just sit in your system digesting for longer than a smaller meal. As far as nutrient timing goes, from what I understand, having plenty of protein and carbs around workouts helps to an extent, but eating enough calories and protein over the course of the whole day is more important.
Now this is just bullshit. He is fat because he eats too many calories. Full stop. If you locked him in your basement. Trained him as normal, provided him with all the food that he can eat in a day, making sure it was under the amount of calories and had plenty of protein and he chose whenever he liked to eat it, he would lose weight.
You are right that skipping breakfast, etc, is a behaviour typically associated with fat people. But that's because they overeat the rest of the day. Also, studies have shown that fat people who "can't lose weight" even after eating under maintenance calories are underreporting calories and overreporting exercise.
Actually, people want to believe that just by removing carbs from their diet or eating smaller more frequent meals they will lose fat. They don't want to believe that it's simply a matter of them eating too much.
Right back at ya. Unfortunately, you are the one that's misinformed
.And just to be clear, I'm not saying you are a bad coach. On the contrary, you seem to be an excellent one. And you getting your clients to eat 6 times per day or not letting them have a single tim tam in their life isn't going to make things any worse for them. But not necessarily better either, is my point.
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Christian
Active Member, June10MOTM
So who are you exactly?
weight height lifitng stats qualificaitons please...
Markos is not misguided at all. His job is to make people stronger/healthier and fitter also fat loss..
Do you have real world experience in this???
Its easy to read some books and make some judgements without real world testing them.. Everything sounds good in a book. Shit communism sounded good.
weight height lifitng stats qualificaitons please...
Markos is not misguided at all. His job is to make people stronger/healthier and fitter also fat loss..
Do you have real world experience in this???
Its easy to read some books and make some judgements without real world testing them.. Everything sounds good in a book. Shit communism sounded good.
Once again see this article for blood sugar, it talks of a recent study: Better Blood Glucose with Lower Meal Frequency | Intermittent fasting diet for fat loss, muscle gain and health
Sorry, but eating under maintenance and not losing weight is bullshit. When they changed their macros, they reduced their calories whether they knew it or not. Same goes for you. Did you measure every gram of food you put into your mouth and track each calorie accurately? I doubt it.
As far as insulin goes, read this article: Insulin…an Undeserved Bad Reputation » Weightology Weekly
It has several parts, but it will help you understand why it's about the calories.
However, if a person is a diabetic or insulin resistant, they have different needs to the average person. That doesn't mean they wouldn't lose weight by eating carbs, but they might feel much better with low carbs. Same as how others might feel better with high carbs.
Weaker than you. Probably because I spent too much time trying to cut when I have no muscle lol. And why does that matter?
Look at this guy: Intermittent fasting diet for fat loss, muscle gain and health
He's stronger than you and believes in all the stuff I said.
Yes, and Markos is an excellent coach. But the point is, him getting his clients to eat 6 times per day is not going to have any negative consequences on their training. It just might have have positive ones either...
Christian
Active Member, June10MOTM
Because everything sounds good on a forum..
People by into all sorts of bullshit me included. Your lean gains boyfriend has been shot to death so many times..
Gives me 7 years ill have numerous bachelor degrees be an MD and a competetive powerlifter then i can tell people eating dirt makes them leaner and stronger people will suck me off.
Whats important is real world effects for real people..
People by into all sorts of bullshit me included. Your lean gains boyfriend has been shot to death so many times..
Gives me 7 years ill have numerous bachelor degrees be an MD and a competetive powerlifter then i can tell people eating dirt makes them leaner and stronger people will suck me off.
Whats important is real world effects for real people..
You're right I guess, anyone who becomes strong and big can then tell people whatever he wants about how he got there.
But the point is, that Lyle and Alan and Martin's conclusions are based on scientific studies.
Also, Martin isn't really my boyfriend, the intermittent fasting thing isn't for me lol. It obviously works though.
I'm not telling you that you have to eat 3 meals a day. 6 meals a day will work just as well. But if you prefer and it's easier for your life style to eat less frequently, I would encourage you to do so. 4 sounds good to me. Breakfast, per workout, post workout and dinner, if you workout around lunch time.
Christian
Active Member, June10MOTM
eight subjects underwent three separate 12-h meal tests:
Three high carbohydrate (3cho) meals,
6 high carbohydrate meals (6cho),
6 high-protein meals (6hp).
Blood samples were taken at 15-min intervals. Integrated area under the curve (auc) concentrations for glucose and plasma insulin were determined (total, 4-h, and 2-h blocks) for each meal condition.
results
baseline glucose and insulin values were not different between study days.
Peak glucose levels were highest on the 3cho day; however the 12 h glucose auc was higher during the 6cho condition (p = 0.029) than 3cho condition,
with no difference in the insulin response. The 6hp condition resulted in a decreased glucose auc (p = 0.004) and insulin auc (p = 0.012) compared to 6cho.
[/quote]
So protein kept blood glucose levels down.. Perhaps to normal levels? Exactly what we are trying to help people do when losing fat who have trouble due to elevated blood glucose!!
Yet mr lean gains stated this
misrepresentation!!!should state that HIGHER FREQUENCY CARBOHYDRATE MEALS .............
But i thought calories were calories?
So lets recap
6 high protein meals
6 larger carb meals
The protein meals had lower blood glucose levels, yet he hasnt reported that he stated this
You can go through his whole website... He stated alcohol consumption decreased depression.
The study he used stated that light alcohol users had less depression then heavy alcohol users... Totally different to what he reported. He also tried to state how it increased lifespan. Well it is believed to do this by increase igfbp-1, the binding protein. http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1339648 .... Yet his article was about training being lean and alcohol? So who would want less igf-1 available??
Well mate when you misrepresent a study and people cant be bothered to follow up into looking at it nubs think you are credible for talking crap, Then they go around and preach nonsense and the vicous cycle begins of how we can eat dougnuts all day and cure cancer.
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And in every single one of my posts I said protein should be high lol. I'm not debating that protein should be high. Always.
Unfortunately the study didn't look at 3 high protein meals, but it still showed that in carb meals, lower meal frequency was better got blood sugar control.
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Obviously if your macros are screwed (as they would be if you eat a diet consisting of only tim tams) then yes it wont matter how many calories you consume. And seriously a person who eats only tim tams? what an interesting place frankston must be.
Put one trainee on a diet with proper macros/calories and another who only eats after working out. One will certainly get better results than the other.
Dave's lunch consists of a big mac, pasta salad and a whole bunch of chinese food. This isnt a brilliant example of someone with proper macros/calories.
Some people would say the same about bb splits.
Can you honestly say you've tested a 6 meal plan with a 3 meal plan with the same calories/macros?
Fewer meals = bigger thermic effect, smaller meals = more frequent but less thermic effect. The difference is not significant.
Christian
Active Member, June10MOTM
If a calorie was a calorie then it wouldnt matter if it was a tim tam beer or protein oliver..
Thats the whole point.
"a calorie is a calorie"
Is exactly what those retarded weight watchers retards think...
Oh if i dont eat breakfast i can have cheese cake for lunch because it = 6 points...
Thats the whole point.
"a calorie is a calorie"
Is exactly what those retarded weight watchers retards think...
Oh if i dont eat breakfast i can have cheese cake for lunch because it = 6 points...
A calorie in a calorie is correct in determining how much energy will enter your body and be stored or how much energy will leave your body.
However, protein is needed for the stored calories to go to muscle and for the leaving calories to come from fat.
I have always said that high protein is important. But once calories are set and protein is set, how much of the rest comes from fat and carbs isn't very relevant.
Well I don't know how the points on WW works, but if they stay under their maintenance calories they will lose weight. However, if they don't get enough protein they will lose plenty of muscle too.
So as you can see, I am not agreeing with what "those retarded weight watchers retards think", if they don't get enough protein. And even if they do, obviously a diet of cheese cake and protein shakes isn't recommended lol, I've repeated this many times.
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