TGA Petition

[PTC]

AEK, your opening a HUGE can of worms with your last comment. Do you want me to list the supplements that promised miracles and disappeared once the suppliers made huge bucks. They dont rely on resales to make a profit.

 

[Aek]

Yes there are supplements that promise the world and deliver little or no benefit, but we all know that

{Use your brain people Thease are NOT DRUGS NOR ARE THEY THERAPUITICS !!!!}

Creatine Monohydrate Works

L-Glutamine works

Protein powder Works

All amino acids in thier pure form WORK !!!!

Even d aspartic acid that is latest craze works all have scientific studies behind them all of them been proven to work and all my god they are all supps.

 

[Christian]

tell me why soil integrity and minerals will be any better with organic than conventional.


Ok Bio dynamic farming. It is basically organic farmings retarded cousin. It is basically organic farming with added astrology, magic and other hocus pocus.

Eg planting and harvesting crops based on moon phases and stars. Burying a bull horn filled with herbs in the crop under a full moon. Homeopathic remedies used on crops. The biggest critics of bio dynamic farming are the organic farmers as they don't want this magical type of farming associated with organic.

Organic farming has plenty of good points. Sustainable agriculture, preserving soil structure, rotating crops, increasing soil fertility ect . But these practices are used by conventional farming anyway.

I cant say it is, thats why you buy from local farmers you know... Question them on what they do. Not just walk into woolies and buy organic potato chips with organic cane sugar just for the sake of it.

Its like buying a car off an enthusiast as opposed to a used car dealership.. 1 actually cared for it the other didnt. What ends up being better for you.

There is more to biodynamic then the wiki dump you just posted...

Im fairly certain that for longer then you and i have been alive civilizations planted crops according to seasons and "the stars". Those people were healthier then we are today.

Do i believe in alot of that hocus pocus rubbish? No... But it shows the farmer actually cares about what he is doing so more likley to get a good result from someone who cares about what they do.

 

[Bazza20]

I cant say it is, thats why you buy from local farmers you know... Question them on what they do. Not just walk into woolies and buy organic potato chips with organic cane sugar just for the sake of it.

Its like buying a car off an enthusiast as opposed to a used car dealership.. 1 actually cared for it the other didnt. What ends up being better for you.

There is more to biodynamic then the wiki dump you just posted...

Im fairly certain that for longer then you and i have been alive civilizations planted crops according to seasons and "the stars". Those people were healthier then we are today.

Do i believe in alot of that hocus pocus rubbish? No... But it shows the farmer actually cares about what he is doing so more likley to get a good result from someone who cares about what they do.

I run a large dairy farm and studied agriculture at uni, i know how farms are run.

You have been blinded by the organic marketing. You believe exactly what they want you to believe. like i said organic farming uses chemicals and fertilizers, they just never mention that. What about organic farming means its cared for better? Also tell me again a actual reason why organic food will have any more nutrients than conventional.

Im fairly certain that for longer then you and i have been alive civilizations planted crops according to seasons and "the stars". Those people were healthier then we are today.

They also thought the world was flat, maybe they were wrong. And every farm plants crops according to the seasons.

Your last comment is absolute bullshit. Your saying that because someone runs there farm according to magic they care more so its better.

What about that means they care more than a conventional farmer.

 

[Christian]

Mate, i run a large dairy farm and studied agriculture at uni, i know how farms are run.

You have been blinded by the organic marketing. You believe exactly what they want you to believe. like i said organic farming uses chemicals and fertilizers, they just never mention that. What about organic farming means its cared for better? Also tell me again a actual reason why organic food will have any more nutrients than conventional.

They also thought the world was flat, maybe they were wrong.

Your last comment is absolute bullshit. Your saying that because someone runs there farm according to magic they care more so its better.

What about that means they care more than a conventional farmer.

You are taking this personaly and its clouding your judgement.

Naturally if someone is very knowledgable on health and agriculture then they are going to have a better understanding on the health effects of the people consuming their products at the end of the line. Not just focus on how much product they can move and how much $$ they can save... That is what you hope for anyway. That is why you buy localy from farmers you know and decelop relationships with people in the health industry.

Im not talking about woolies organic here. Im not doubting that you dont care about your dairy farm.

Anyway this chest bashing backand forth rubbish is a waste of time and energy for both. You dont have to agree i dont really care..

1 Question do you drink your raw milk?

Australia's chemical regulator says its reviewing studies on the insecticide Endosulfan, which has now been banned in the United States because it poses an unacceptable risk to farm workers and wildlife.
Endosulfans are banned in more than 60 countries, but in Australia they are still used on some vegetable, fruit and nut crops.

the paper showed organic strawberries had significantly higher antioxidant activity and concentrations of ascorbic acid and phenolic compounds, longer shelf life, and dry matter. In addition, the organic soils excelled in the areas of carbon sequestration, nitrogen, microbial biomass, enzyme activities, and micronutrients
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0012346

 

[Bazza20]

My judgment is clouded??

You still cant tell me how organic is different to conventional.
Both use chemicals, both use fertilizers. Both look after soil structure, rotate crops, ect ect. Organic and convential farming are almost identical in the ways that matter. If my farm changed to organic the main change would be the fertilizer i use would change. The plant wont know the difference, a synthetic form of nitrogen to a natural form.

Also are you now saying organic farmers have more knowledge of health and agriculture??

Organic is just falling for the naturalistic fallacy. That because its natural it has to be better. Its great marketing and its obviously working. Most people don't even know that organic farming uses chemicals and fertilizer.

Honestly none of what you are saying applies any more to organic than conventional farming.

1. yes i drink the milk straight from the vat. why?

You can find plenty of papers saying otherwise.
Found this quote in about a 2 second Google search, just an example there is plenty of evidence out there to show it has no difference.

ALAN DANGOUR: So the question are there differences in nutrient content was the primary question and what we did was we looked at the papers published in the last 50 years and we were unable to find any important differences in nutrient content between organically and conventionally produced foods.

 

[Christian]

Maybe your farm is better then others i have been to see and witnessed.

Like i previously stated..

More health concerns are linked to chemical pesticides and fertilizers then natural...

That is all no more no less.. I also provided you with a paper from a journal that stated 1 had a higher yield and nutritional vlaue.

What more do u want? An argument for arguments sake?

 

[Bazza20]

More health concerns are linked to chemical pesticides and fertilizers then natural...

Proof??



I read something about an hour ago that said they were alarmed at the number of organic pesticides that were carcinogenic.


There are well and poorly run conventional farms just as there is with organic.

 

[Christian]

Proof??



I read something about an hour ago that said they were alarmed at the number of organic pesticides that were carcinogenic.


There are well and poorly run conventional farms just as there is with organic.

And who is they? ...

You read an hour ago?

And your asking me for proof...

I really cant be fucked anymore. Im going to play blackops

 

[Bazza20]

I wasnt posting that as proof. It was an example.

Chemicals are chemicals. How exactally are these natural chemicals used safer than synthetic ones. You were the one that said it, I'm interested. Many of the synthetic chemicals used are just derivitives of natural ones but are more effective requiring smaller amounts to be used.

I'll say it a again you are just falling for the marketing. These chemicals are natural so they must be better.

 

[PTC]

Noobs, you picked the wrong guy me's think's

AEK, are any of those nutrients found in food, and probably dont need to be supplemented?

Did these guys need those supplements?

Do you benefit from supplement sales?

My point is that the industry makes money from ignorant people, therefore it should be regulated.

Either they educate or regulate, they cant have it both ways. They need to protect those that think a great physique comes from supplements that are found in food, since the dawn of time.

WWGD

 

[Oli]

WWGD

What Would Jesus Do? :S

 

[Christian]

I wasnt posting that as proof. It was an example.

Chemicals are chemicals. How exactally are these natural chemicals used safer than synthetic ones. You were the one that said it, I'm interested. Many of the synthetic chemicals used are just derivitives of natural ones but are more effective requiring smaller amounts to be used.

I'll say it a again you are just falling for the marketing. These chemicals are natural so they must be better.

How do you know every farmer uses these dangerous natural chemicals.

This is like everything in life some peoples systems can cope with removal of excess toxins some cant... Also developing children/pregnant women are at higher risk naturally.



May 17, 2010 -- Relatively low-level exposure to common pesticides -- probably from residues on foods -- doubles kids' risk of ADHD, Harvard researchers find.

 

[Christian]

Noobs, you picked the wrong guy me's think's

AEK, are any of those nutrients found in food, and probably dont need to be supplemented?

Did these guys need those supplements?

Do you benefit from supplement sales?

My point is that the industry makes money from ignorant people, therefore it should be regulated.

Either they educate or regulate, they cant have it both ways. They need to protect those that think a great physique comes from supplements that are found in food, since the dawn of time.

WWGD

Markos every industry makes money off ignorant people...

 

[Jim_Junkie]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbsSeVr5NSI&feature=fvw]YouTube - Shake Weight For Men? - OFFICIAL VIDEO AD[/ame]

 

[Aek]

Hey PTC i know you love bashing the Supps industry but in all honesty there are some natural bodybuilders out there today that would put those prehistoric bodies to Shame.

Those dinosuar bodybuilders also used some gear aswell so that only proves my point that supps do work, are you advocating taking gear aswell lol !!!

Supplements do work i do not see how they can hinder anyones progress in weight training.

Furthermore to get adleast 12gr Creatine Monohydrate you need to eat adleast 3kg of meat everyday

Even you can not do that so stop throwing that food vs supps argument across it's a piss weak argument, of course food is better but supps can assist.

There is no dought about it !!!!

 

[Oli]

Hey PTC i know you love bashing the Supps industry but in all honesty there are some natural bodybuilders out there today that would put those prehistoric bodies to Shame.

Pics or it didnt happen. Don't get me wrong Layne is impressive but steve reeves would give him a run for his money. Also, I'd say layne is big because he has a phd in nutrition as opposed to his supplement regime (he doesnt take many).

Those dinosuar bodybuilders also used some gear aswell so that only proves my point that supps do work, are you advocating taking gear aswell lol !!!

Steve probably didn't. Drugs mostly came in during the 60s.

Supplements do work i do not see how they can hinder anyones progress in weight training.

Because your spending your money on jack3d as opposed to weightlifting shoes.

Furthermore to get adleast 12gr Creatine Monohydrate you need to eat adleast 3kg of meat everyday

Creatine also makes you puffy. zyzz, chestbrah etc are against it.

Even you can not do that so stop throwing that food vs supps argument across it's a piss weak argument, of course food is better but supps can assist.

In doing jack shit.

I went to the profiles of 3 very good bodybuilders:

Weight gainers and mass gainers were used very often throughout my first 2 years. They helped me put on size for sure. I was never a big fan of creatine, but i have used it before – the water retention in most creatine products is what turns me off. Pre workout energy drinks are also good, but these days all i take is fish oil, multi’s, and whey after a workout.
Save your money on expensive supplements and go buy some tuna, broccoli, Cottage cheese and steak. Trust me on this one!

Supplements that I take on a daily basis include multivitamins, fish oil, waxy maize, whey protein and a simple weight gainer.

I’ll have 3 Protein shakes a day and Creatine after a workout. I take the generic fish oil and vitamins just for general well being. One of the protein shakes I have is a slow release and I add egg whites and low fat ice cream to it so its like a smoothie (a spoon of nutella sometimes too). It tastes great and is a perfect shake for bulking.

Yes they juice but notice that protein powder, fish oil and a multi are pretty much the only things they take?

 

[unt0uchable]

Really good bodybuilders? How many cycles have they been on ...

Look at narcissus compared to Iron Curtis

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FPZNfYsI2w]YouTube - iron_curtis & narcissus (no homo)[/ame]

 

[Aek]

They are Supplements Right !!!! Protein powder fish oil ect i am actually agreeing with you man, my argument here is whats the difference between Powder and the Caps that the TGA want to regulate !!!!!!

Can you see point !!!

I also reckon that Skip Lacour has a way better body than the Dinosuars that was posted up, and this guy uses alot of supps actualy has his own supplement line and guess what fellas 100% natural NO DRUGS been drug tested quite a few times aswell.

Passed them all !!!!

 

[Oli]

Protein powder is in no way a supplement. Vitimins and fish oil are but i cant see any big restrictions on those happening.

If you think skip lacour isn't on drugs then youre on drugs yourself. The dude has openingly admitted to having taken steroids in the past. Sure hes not on them now, but hes moved into the sport with 10kg more than he otherwise would have had, and dont even get me start on jeff willet...

Layne Nortons probably the best natural lifter around - he comes in at about 190lb contest and 220 offseason which pretty much is on par with reeves. Not much has changed in this sport man.