Would you rather live in a world without PEDs?

[pistachio]

If drugs are 'illegal' some people are still going to take them making them 'cheats'. If drugs are legal, everyone would take them and nobody would be 'cheating'....

Kids these days....

I was going to explain it, but just did a face palm instead.

 

[Brick]

I was waiting for someone to raise the melanotan tho lol.

Basically, this is a totally different story. Getting to my current tan 'naturally' would be unhealthy and involve severe skin damage and possible risk of skin cancer.

Except for people who tan naturally really easily (ie in like a day), tanning is pretty much dangerous for everyone.

I could live without a tan of course, but seeing as it is available and as far as I can tell, safe to use, why not?

I don't see how it is so different when you take hormones and are a bb'er you are only taking them for aesthetics strength is a by product not the desired result. Alot of people have exactly the same attitude to juice as you have to melatonan, safe if not abused so why not.

Just seems hypocritical to me where do you draw the line peptides are fine but steroids are cheating. They are all performance enhancers if your goal is physique/aesthetics.

For the record I have never done a cycle nor am I that big. I did manage to hit 90kg at one point and everyone used to say I must be juicing was cut and had 18" bro arms & 42" chest funny though that those people were always bitter non lifters or lifters who weren't progressing.....the attitude seemed to be they couldn't get big so I must be juicing cause I got big. Who cares haters gonna hate. Your just as bad as them hating on the juicers.

 

[pistachio]

I don't see how it is so different when you take hormones and are a bb'er you are only taking them for aesthetics strength is a by product not the desired result. Alot of people have exactly the same attitude to juice as you have to melatonan, safe if not abused so why not.

Just seems hypocritical to me where do you draw the line peptides are fine but steroids are cheating. They are all performance enhancers if your goal is physique/aesthetics.

For the record I have never done a cycle nor am I that big. I did manage to hit 90kg at one point and everyone used to say I must be juicing was cut and had 18" bro arms & 42" chest funny though that those people were always bitter non lifters or lifters who weren't progressing.....the attitude seemed to be they couldn't get big so I must be juicing cause I got big. Who cares haters gonna hate. Your just as bad as them hating on the juicers.

Ok, here is the difference.

Tanning naturally is DANGEROUS. If i could do it without drugs, you'd better believe I would.

Getting big/strong naturally is HEALTHY. Doing drugs just speeds it up.

Yes, they are analogous. But tanning naturally is not safe.

FFS man, I'm not hating on juicers. I thought I clarified that earlier.

I don't care if people want to juice and I have mates that have juiced it before. Yes I do get jealous of how quickly they grow, but I don't hate on them.

BUT if I could live in a world where they didn't exist, I would. More just out of curiosity to see what the difference would be than anything else.

Also, I never said anything about peptides being fine and steroids being cheating.

In fact I never even said anything about either or about cheating in general. This thread was purely a hypothetical question, not a dig at people for using PEDs or hating on anyone.

 

[Brick]

Ok, here is the difference.

Tanning naturally is DANGEROUS. If i could do it without drugs, you'd better believe I would.

Getting big/strong naturally is HEALTHY. Doing drugs just speeds it up.

Yes, they are analogous. But tanning naturally is not safe.

FFS man, I'm not hating on juicers. I thought I clarified that earlier.

I don't care if people want to juice and I have mates that have juiced it before. Yes I do get jealous of how quickly they grow, but I don't hate on them.

BUT if I could live in a world where they didn't exist, I would. More just out of curiosity to see what the difference would be than anything else.

Also, I never said anything about peptides being fine and steroids being cheating.

In fact I never even said anything about either or about cheating in general. This thread was purely a hypothetical question, not a dig at people for using PEDs or hating on anyone.

Yeah I just read the thread again I retract what I said about you been a hater.

I will put it another way do you consider creatine, dmma, beta etc performance enhancing drugs? What about blood doping that isn't even a drug. At what point do you say a compound (or technique) becomes a PED over a training aid. Wasn't so long ago pro hormones were considered supps not PED's.

 

[pistachio]

I will put it another way do you consider creatine, dmma, beta etc performance enhancing drugs? What about blood doping that isn't even a drug. At what point do you say a compound (or technique) becomes a PED over a training aid. Wasn't so long ago pro hormones were considered supps not PED's.

That's a whole different issue (as in where do you draw the line). It becomes incredibly grey and almost impossible to tell. My general view however is that anything that could be derived from food alone is simply a supplement (ie protein, creatine etc). Cos you COULD get enough from food if you could be fucked making sure you had all the required food items in your diet. Anything that can not be achieved through diet alone (ie blood doping is impossible naturally) would be deemed performance enhancing i guess.

To further clarify the question in this thread (I did think the issue of what exactly is defined as a PED would come up, but CBF elaborating), I guess it would be interesting to live in a world where there was nothing - no supps, no drugs, no doping, no swim suits etc. Just pure, raw, natural talent, effort and hard work.

As I was saying earlier to KFG, imagine how impressive it would be when someone broke a new record. There wouldn't be any question of whether it was better equipment, or whether they were on drugs or were doping.

But as has already been mentioned, this would probably bore people because it would be a VERY uncommon thing to happen.

 

[Rugby88]

These sorta topics could go around in circles for days.....

 

[pistachio]

These sorta topics could go around in circles for days.....

Makes for interesting discussion though no?

 

[Brick]

That's a whole different issue (as in where do you draw the line). It becomes incredibly grey and almost impossible to tell. My general view however is that anything that could be derived from food alone is simply a supplement (ie protein, creatine etc). Cos you COULD get enough from food if you could be fucked making sure you had all the required food items in your diet. Anything that can not be achieved through diet alone (ie blood doping is impossible naturally) would be deemed performance enhancing i guess.

To further clarify the question in this thread (I did think the issue of what exactly is defined as a PED would come up, but CBF elaborating), I guess it would be interesting to live in a world where there was nothing - no supps, no drugs, no doping, no swim suits etc. Just pure, raw, natural talent, effort and hard work.

As I was saying earlier to KFG, imagine how impressive it would be when someone broke a new record. There wouldn't be any question of whether it was better equipment, or whether they were on drugs or were doping.

But as has already been mentioned, this would probably bore people because it would be a VERY uncommon thing to happen.

The best athletes would be those with the genetics for their chosen sport. You see this at the olympics, genetics and race go hand in hand think about it no matter how hard they train you don't see asians winning the hundred metre sprint conversely you won't see africans/african americans winning the gymnastics. You need to be built for your sport at an elite level.

 

[Rugby88]

Makes for interesting discussion though no?

It does but they do become frustrating because everyone has there own views on drugs...and it turns into abit of a shit fight trying to get your point across sometimes....

Drugs are drugs...anyone with half a brain knows they are in every sport and on every corner of every street or in every gym or every country....

 

[Rugby88]

The best athletes would be those with the genetics for their chosen sport. You see this at the olympics, genetics and race go hand in hand think about it no matter how hard they train you don't see asians winning the hundred metre sprint conversely you won't see africans/african americans winning the gymnastics. You need to be built for your sport at an elite level.

I 100% agree with this...but you will find most will take drugs to enhance this....there is no doubt about this...

 

[callan]

If drugs are 'illegal' some people are still going to take them making them 'cheats'. If drugs are legal, everyone would take them and nobody would be 'cheating'....

Kids these days....

and what about those who dont want to take drugs? their just left behind

 

[KungFooGoo]

and what about those who dont want to take drugs? their just left behind

They would be the wooden spoon winners or they wouldn't make it at all.

 

[callan]

They would be the wooden spoon winners or they wouldn't make it at all.

exactly, id prefer lifting to have no PED's in it whatsoever, no cheaters, nothing, that way its an even playing field, those who are truly strong will win, those who are large from hard work (inb4 someone says u need to work hard using PED's, i know this) will win.... true champions, not some loser who needs PED's to win.

 

[KungFooGoo]

exactly, id prefer lifting to have no PED's in it whatsoever, no cheaters, nothing, that way its an even playing field, those who are truly strong will win, those who are large from hard work (inb4 someone says u need to work hard using PED's, i know this) will win.... true champions, not some loser who needs PED's to win.

How will you stop people from using PED's?

What about little Ganesh the kneegrow kid who can't afford the expensive swim suit that will take .5 seconds off his time. Does that mean that "x" is cheating becase he can afford the suit that will enable him to beat Ganesh?

Don't know what the fuck Ganesh is doing swimming anyway.... Also if you talk about the god here KungFooGoo's pretty sure he'd chop up even though his an elephant he's got 8 arms... That has to help out surely...

KungFooGoo won't be coming back into this thread... It's going around in circles... everyone has different opinions and l don't feel strongly enough about it to keep bitching about it.

 

[McKwl]

Definitely.

They make a mockery of genuine achievements, real human potential and actual feats. It's amazing what we can do, and yet, some people want to shit all over it and make it meaningless.

Luckily, some other people are against using anything like that, refuse to, and proceed from there. Yes, that means there will be things they can't do. But those things have become basically meaningless, so who cares. Whatever they decide to do with their natural abilities and hard work is up to them. I know I'll be interested in their achievements. Hopefully, as time goes on, there will be more and more of us, so that "natty" sports, competitions, etc., become the norm once again - as it always was, of course.

 

[callan]

How will you stop people from using PED's?

What about little Ganesh the kneegrow kid who can't afford the expensive swim suit that will take .5 seconds off his time. Does that mean that "x" is cheating becase he can afford the suit that will enable him to beat Ganesh?

Don't know what the fuck Ganesh is doing swimming anyway.... Also if you talk about the god here KungFooGoo's pretty sure he'd chop up even though his an elephant he's got 8 arms... That has to help out surely...

KungFooGoo won't be coming back into this thread... It's going around in circles... everyone has different opinions and l don't feel strongly enough about it to keep bitching about it.

this is not the "are you against PED's" thread its the "would you rather live in a world without them" so as in they dont exist.

 

[callan]

Definitely.

They make a mockery of genuine achievements, real human potential and actual feats. It's amazing what we can do, and yet, some people want to shit all over it and make it meaningless.

Luckily, some other people are against using anything like that, refuse to, and proceed from there. Yes, that means there will be things they can't do. But those things have become basically meaningless, so who cares. Whatever they decide to do with their natural abilities and hard work is up to them. I know I'll be interested in their achievements. Hopefully, as time goes on, there will be more and more of us, so that "natty" sports, competitions, etc., become the norm once again - as it always was, of course.

hmmmm i want to bench 200.... brb going to inject some shit into my ass cheek.

 

[Brick]

Definitely.

They make a mockery of genuine achievements, real human potential and actual feats. It's amazing what we can do, and yet, some people want to shit all over it and make it meaningless.

Luckily, some other people are against using anything like that, refuse to, and proceed from there. Yes, that means there will be things they can't do. But those things have become basically meaningless, so who cares. Whatever they decide to do with their natural abilities and hard work is up to them. I know I'll be interested in their achievements. Hopefully, as time goes on, there will be more and more of us, so that "natty" sports, competitions, etc., become the norm once again - as it always was, of course.

I will give you some real life examples of what you are saying is interesting -
The riders who can't keep up with the pack in tour de france
The sprinters that don't make the olympic finals or for that matter the olympic team

Honestly at that elite level if they are using PED's it is probably 1/100th of the equation they already have something we never will; natural ability, drive, genetics, mental strength and years (normally decades) of hard training. It isn't the drugs that make them great athletes it's a combination of all the above factors.

Callans example is perfect no matter how much test & GH you jacked your not gonna bench 200kg unless you are 1) naturally gifted 2) built for benching 3) Trained for many many years. Don't diminish peoples achievements. Whether your Mr O a competitive PL'er, sprinter, cyclist the drugs don't make the athlete.

 

[craze]

I think it should be legal in all sports so we can see the max they can do!

 

[callan]

I think it should be legal in all sports so we can see the max they can do!

wouldnt you rather see someones natural strength over their artificial strength??

i dont like the idea of taking peds simply to see a few extra plates on the bar.