Whos made the change from bodybuilding to strength?

[spartacus]

now I know Oni said it is all about GH since the 1980s, but here is a quote from a top bb and powerlifter.


http://www.musclemag.com/high-rep-ranges-for-optimal-growth/#.U2CzuWCKBjo
[Q] Johnnie, I thought you were all about big weight all the time?
[A] Well, as I said, I am stronger now than ever before. Branch and I have been back training together for a few months now. We used to train with higher reps when getting ready for a competition, but then I stopped that because I started doing powerlifting contests on the side. Then when I left powerlifting, I hovered around that kind of heavy training and it didn’t really do what it was supposed to do for my physique. The size and density I had previously built up from high-rep training, I began to lose because I was only worried about strength, 1RMs etc. Now in getting back to it, my body is responding, “Now you’ve got it.” I’m shocking my muscles and they’ve grown tremendously. The one thing I learned is that I can’t chase two rabbits at once. You have to be a bodybuilder or a powerlifter, not both. If you want to grow bodyparts for bodybuilding, this is the way you need to train. You can still mix it up every once in a while and go super heavy, but this is the way you should train most of the time.

 

[0ni]

Wow, he does more reps and maxes out less
What a huge fucking difference

 

[spartacus]

i know it is lost on you, but key point made here

Then when I left powerlifting, I hovered around that kind of heavy training and it didn’t really do what it was supposed to do for my physique. The size and density I had previously built up from high-rep training, I began to lose because I was only worried about strength

 

[White_Lie]

Do you think this is because bodybuilders of this day and age are a lot bigger than previously?

 

[Darkoz]

Gary Lewer used GH, so your argument is invalid as it changes everything
Look at the pre-GH era. The top BBers were mainly lean strength athletes. Guys like Franco Columbu, Frank Zane, Arnold, Benny Podda, Marvin Eder, Zabo Koszewski, Ed Corney, Chuck Sipes, John Defendis, Steve Michalik, John Grimek (squatted 695lb at age 70), Jeff King, Ricky Bruch, Ken Patera, fuck even Kirk Karwoski

The ability to lift heavy weights is critical in bodybuilding lol. They don't test maxes often no. But you need every bit as much motor coordination because a powerlifter just practices singles more and that is it.

I know @Silverback ; agrees on this

Fuck me 0ni, you take drugs so every argument you have is invalid, you've never achieved anything in lifting as a natural, so there.

 

[spartacus]

Do you think this is because bodybuilders of this day and age are a lot bigger than previously?

Not sure if question is to me, but I think training methods have improved out of sight since 1970s, with reasons for larger standard well beyond reasons attributed to HGH. This is despite my preference for 1970s physiques.

Knowledge on nutrition is vastly different.

I also think a lot more diversity of training, although was there in 1970s with Serge Nubret for one, has resulted by more questioning of supposed wisdom of day.

I do not question relationship between strength and size. but I do question just what sort of training defines ultimate intensity for bb.

 

[Darkoz]

Ever notice how some dudes can just place a bar on theirs backs and squat 10 reps for 200kg after a month of lifting?
what does this tell you?

They're lucky bastards, some are born with it, while other mere mortals bust there arse to achieve half the result.

 

[Darkoz]

Arnold and Franco: former European powerlifting champs.
Sergio: former Cuban weightlifting champ.
A lot of the American golden age bb'ers started off strength training for football...

What you call powerlifting back then is a far cry from what it's turned into today.

 

[0ni]

i know it is lost on you, but key point made here

Then when I left powerlifting, I hovered around that kind of heavy training and it didn’t really do what it was supposed to do for my physique. The size and density I had previously built up from high-rep training, I began to lose because I was only worried about strength

So what? What about all the people that found training heavy helped their physique?

 

[spartacus]

What you call powerlifting back then is a far cry from what it's turned into today.

That is right,

With all due respect to the great man, his powerlifts were not outstanding by today's standards, at least the ones we know he did in 1960s.

1963 Olympic Lifting Competition (placing unknown, early 1963, Graz)
1964 Styrian Junior Weightlifting Champion (1[SUP]st[/SUP], Autumn)
1965 Austrian Olympic Lifting Champion (1[SUP]st[/SUP], Heavyweight, Summer)
1966 International Powerlifting Champion (1[SUP]st[/SUP], 80+ kg, 30[SUP]th[/SUP] Oct, Stuttgart)
1967 German Powerlifting Championships (2[SUP]nd[/SUP], 80+ kg, 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Apr, Munich)
1967 Graz Paradise Keller Lifting Championships (2[SUP]nd[/SUP], Dec)
1968 German Powerlifting Champion (1[SUP]st[/SUP], 80+ kg, 5[SUP]th[/SUP] May, Munich)

1963 Olympic lifting competition. In an interview with Peter McGough (M&F, July 1997, p. 60), Arnold told of competing in a competition at a beer hall in Graz in early 1963. This was apparently Arnold’s first contest. He lifted 165 lbs overhead, beating his previous best of 150 lbs. It is not clear whether this was a jerk or a press.

1964 Styrian Junior weightlifting championships. Albert Busek’s article on Arnold (Kraftsport revue Nr. 30, Jan 1967) states that Arnold was the Steirischer Jugendmeister in the Autumn of 1964. The winning weight is given as 280 kg (616 lbs). However, the English version of Busek’s article (H&S 30[SUP]th[/SUP] March 1967) claims a total of 705 lbs. Neither article is clear about which lifts were included.1965 Austrian Olympic lifting championships. Arnold states in ‘Education of a Bodybuilder’ that before he was 18 he had won the heavyweight division of the Austrian Olympic lifting championships. Busek also wrote (Kraftsport revue Nr. 30; H&S 30[SUP]th[/SUP] March 1967) that by the summer of 1965, Arnold ‘occupied an undisputed first place in the list of Austrian weightlifters’. The impression given in ‘Education of a Bodybuilder’ was that this was Arnold’s last Olympic lifting competition.The H&S article reported best lifts of, Press 264 lbs, Snatch 243 lbs and C&J 298 lbs. There was no suggestion that these were the lifts from the 1965 Austrian contest.1966 International powerlifting championships. Results of the Internationale Meisterschaft Kraftdreikampf appeared in Kraftsport revue (Nr. 30, p. 36-37). Arnold won, Michelik Stanko was 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] and Leo Pelekies 3[SUP]rd[/SUP]. Arnold’s lifts were, Deadlift 250 kg, Bench 165 kg and Squat 170 kg. The original contest report gave the total as 585kg, Busek’s H&S article reported 1290 lbs.1967 German powerlifting championships. Results appeared in Kraftsport revue Nr. 34 (p. 34-35). Arnold came 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] to Georg Schipper, Klaus Schumann was 3[SUP]rd[/SUP]. Arnold’s lifts were, Bench 170 kg (374 lbs), Squat 200 kg (440 lbs), Deadlift 280 kg (616 lbs). A photo of Arnold deadlifting at this event was published in FLEX (May 2005) but incorrectly dated as 1966. I have the results for the 1966 competition. Arnold did not compete, although he was one of the guest posers.1967 Graz Paradise Keller lifting Championships. Wendy Leigh reported that Arnold lost to Helmut Cerncic. Apparently, Kurt Marnul, Karl Kainrath and Adolf Ziegner also competed.1968 German powerlifting championships. A brief summary of the results was given in Kraftsport revue (Nr. 45, p. 38). These indicated that Arnold deadlifted 310 kg for a total of 725 kg. Full results were promised for issue nr. 46, which I don’t have. However, Thomas Klose has previously told us that the full results were later reprinted as, Squat 215 kg, Bench 200 kg and Deadlift 310 kg.The impression given in ‘Education of a Bodybuilder’ was that this was Arnold’s last powerlifting competition.

http://castironknowledge.blogspot.com.au/2010/10/arnolds-powerlifting-history.html

 

[0ni]

A 725kg total is pretty fucking impressive. A 1600 total as what, a 198? A top 10 wrapless total today

 

[spartacus]

he was not 198 in 1967-1968, not even close?

 

[0ni]

I have no idea what he weighed, it was a guess. Still, a 1600lb total is nothing to shy at. He did Reg Parks 5x5 routine IIRC. Funny that. Sounds a lot like a powerlifting routine

 

[Darkoz]

Sounds like a Reg Park routine to me but like crossfit, powerlifting stole it.

 

[0ni]

Sounds like a Reg Park routine to me but like crossfit, powerlifting stole it.

>that's the joke

 

[Darkoz]

Haha!

 

[spartacus]

I have no idea what he weighed, it was a guess. Still, a 1600lb total is nothing to shy at. He did Reg Parks 5x5 routine IIRC. Funny that. Sounds a lot like a powerlifting routine

Yes, his standard was good for then, and he was only 20.

1972 Worlds IPF 110kg class, his weight class, 895kg won.
110kg+ 1062.5kg won

 

[spartacus]

Sounds like a Reg Park routine to me but like crossfit, powerlifting stole it.

Clever and true

 

[steveP]

Don't the results kind of speak for themselves? Most bodybuilders aren't the strongest guys in the gym and power lifters don't generally have the most muscle mass or best bodies. You can't take the few exceptions who do both and discredit everyone else.

 

[Goosey]

the OP

"Whos made the change to strength style routines? An anything you have noticed? Body shape etc."

The question should be; is there a fundemental difference between bodybiulding routines and strength biulding routines?

My answer to that is a loud no.

the differance is that bodybiulders work towards a percieved ideal, whether that is realistic or not depends upon the persons genetics, more often than not a man starts out biulding his body, wants to look like his idols.

it goes three ways;
1. Worse case, has got the genetics of mr bean and Shane Warne and throws in the towel
2. adds muscle very quickly but looks like brick and is drawn to powerlifting and usually excels and cans bodybuilding and it's methods
3. adds muscle very quickly, looks like a collection of body parts and looks great in a pair of speedos and cans powerlifters