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RyanF
Member
For a long time I held onto a lot of grudges, hated a lot of people, and transferred that hate onto new people. Over the last 3 years, my worldview has dramatically shifted. Instead of treating myself like a victim I now understand that everything anyone has ever done to hurt me has either been an accident (and why hate on someone for an accident?) or has been an extension of their own inability to cope (why hate on someone for their failures?). It's not always easy to put things into perspective, try to understand the other person's position and forgive them, but it's something I try to do daily, and my quality of life has been much greater for it. Forgiveness (not tolerance or ignorance) is one of the greatest acts of maturity.
DKD
Private Dancer
Good post champ....this bit stood out to me.
If more people understood this concept of assessing the other person's viewpoint (i.e. exercising emotional intelligence) then there would be less need for forgiveness because less conflicts would arise in the first place.
RyanF
Member
Thankyou, Bella.
DKD, that's very true. Our culture teaches our children everything other than how to relate to other human beings. We've forsaken truly meaningful life skills and maturity in favour of having a series of letters next to our name. We know how to be doctors, scientists and CEOs, but we don't know how to relate well with others, or even with ourselves. If we exercised emotional intelligence, as you say, we'd be doing far fewer things in need of forgiveness in the first place. Of course, we can never have emotional omnipotence, so we will all do things from time to time that require another person's forgiveness, and at that point it becomes our responsibility to own our faults and work on correcting them. That's the forgivee side of things. The forgiver side of things is to realise that if you had the same education, temperament, self-control, wisdom, life experience etc as the other person and were in their shoes, you probably would have done the same thing.
DKD, that's very true. Our culture teaches our children everything other than how to relate to other human beings. We've forsaken truly meaningful life skills and maturity in favour of having a series of letters next to our name. We know how to be doctors, scientists and CEOs, but we don't know how to relate well with others, or even with ourselves. If we exercised emotional intelligence, as you say, we'd be doing far fewer things in need of forgiveness in the first place. Of course, we can never have emotional omnipotence, so we will all do things from time to time that require another person's forgiveness, and at that point it becomes our responsibility to own our faults and work on correcting them. That's the forgivee side of things. The forgiver side of things is to realise that if you had the same education, temperament, self-control, wisdom, life experience etc as the other person and were in their shoes, you probably would have done the same thing.
pistachio
Member
I can't forgive someone when they can't admit fault.
Maybe it is a character flaw, but how can you forgive someone when they aren't even sorry? Or won't even admit that they are at fault?
I'd be lying if I said I forgave them. And I would always resent them that little bit for never admitting fault. If someone is genuinely sorry or admits fault, I am very forgiving. But some people are incapable of admitting fault.
Maybe it is a character flaw, but how can you forgive someone when they aren't even sorry? Or won't even admit that they are at fault?
I'd be lying if I said I forgave them. And I would always resent them that little bit for never admitting fault. If someone is genuinely sorry or admits fault, I am very forgiving. But some people are incapable of admitting fault.
D1cko
Extra Large Member
I can't not ever forgive my ex-wife or her mother, or the Court system either.
When we split up, I paid for her and the kids to relocate back to the city, and I drove her car 1500km's to Perth for her. Seemed like a good thing to do, mostly for my kids. We had a mutual agreement that I would fly back to see them.
As soon as she made it to Perth, her and her Mother both got restraining orders on me, they used each other as witnesses! The lies and bullshit cost me 7 months of time with my kids that i'll never get back. They were 3 and 4.
When I asked her why she did it, she said the lawyer told her to do it, so I couldn't take the kids away. The lazy magistrates couldn't see that a mother and daughter using each other as a witness was bullshit.
Now, more than 2 years on, I now live back in Perth with a 'normal' woman, and see my kids every RnR...the kids still beg to live with me, say that they don't get to do anything at home, get told to shut up and sit in the laundry...makes my blood boil every now and then.
I look forward to the day they can make up their own mind and come live with me...
When we split up, I paid for her and the kids to relocate back to the city, and I drove her car 1500km's to Perth for her. Seemed like a good thing to do, mostly for my kids. We had a mutual agreement that I would fly back to see them.
As soon as she made it to Perth, her and her Mother both got restraining orders on me, they used each other as witnesses! The lies and bullshit cost me 7 months of time with my kids that i'll never get back. They were 3 and 4.
When I asked her why she did it, she said the lawyer told her to do it, so I couldn't take the kids away. The lazy magistrates couldn't see that a mother and daughter using each other as a witness was bullshit.
Now, more than 2 years on, I now live back in Perth with a 'normal' woman, and see my kids every RnR...the kids still beg to live with me, say that they don't get to do anything at home, get told to shut up and sit in the laundry...makes my blood boil every now and then.
I look forward to the day they can make up their own mind and come live with me...
shinpathy
New member
farrrrk man that is painful...
KungFooGoo
Gangster
KungFooGoo hasn't forgiven his father, never will.
@ Dicko, thats fucking bullshit dude... That is the true definition of a C**t. As soon as your kids are 16 or 18 they'll be with you for sure.
@ Dicko, thats fucking bullshit dude... That is the true definition of a C**t. As soon as your kids are 16 or 18 they'll be with you for sure.
@ Dicko, it's not the court systems fault its the oxygen thief of a lawyer. How someone could advise someone to lie and collude to stop a father from seeing thier kids it's beyond me. I would love to be a lawyer who prosecutes other lawyers for using and abusing the courts. Imagine the job satisfaction.
Rugby88
I have Ep1c Calendar kunce
Mate thats fucking terrible...I am sorry but what is with women doing this? why do they react in this manner...I am not saying men dont but you hear so many stories like this...breaks ya heart!
D1cko
Extra Large Member
Thanks peeps, Relevant, yeah I know the lawyer is too blame, I joined a group where Dads went through the same thing and it is quite a common thing, some dads had gone through much worse than me...another tactic, is to draw out the process by continually asking for adjournments, something that lazy magistrates love (means they don't have deal with issue that day )...all in effort to break the poor dads and push them to the edge
Glad it's all long behind me!!!
Glad it's all long behind me!!!
Franco
New member
I work for the dept that deals with child support and in a lot of cases it is a huge factor in ppl's decision making. The more care you have of the children, the more the other parent has to pay in support. So greedy ppl/lawyers will manipulate the system to get more care.
Rugby88
I have Ep1c Calendar kunce
totally fucked up
coaltrain
New member
This works both ways tho. A mate of mine was getting raped with this exact deal. So he set up an abn and worked under a business name, contracting himself to the company. He paid himself a wage of something small, like 500 a week, but paid his business the full amount. He only had to pay x amount of child support doing it this way. Mind you that was a few years ago now. Things might have changed. I don't have any kids so can't image how much of a head fuck this kinda crap is. I don't get how women get immediate right of way too. Makes me wana get all sexist up in this ma'fucker.
Oh, and fuck the legal system all together, it's a hypocrisy.
Franco
New member
You’re exactly right. There are bad peeps on both sides. Some ppl who just want money and use the kids as a tool. Some ppl who dont want to pay anything and hide their income like you said. It’s real messy. Child support only ever works well when both parents are amicable.
And sometimes that doesnt come down to the system (although the family court system for deciding custody and stuff seems whack), but comes down to the fact that when you are dealing with money and kids it’s really hard to please both parents. So then its just conflict and more conflict.
lol
You're right coaltrain, plenty of men wrought the system too and do exactly what you've outlined above.
See, to me, sometimes when people breakup - it becomes emotional warfare, rather than keeping the children's best interests at the centre of any dealings. Breakups can be bitter and nasty and people say and threaten awful things to eachother.
Like my ex told me if I ever left him - he'd steal my daughter and take her to the middle east somewhere and hide with her and I'd never see her again. He threatened that more than once too.
So when I left?
I had one suitcase and my baby. And I flew home.
He got everything, the house, the bank accounts, the contents of our 11 years of life together. Every thing, every penny, all of it.
As far as I'm concerned, a very small price to pay - for peace? lol
I have never fought him for anything. I don't want anything from him. He pays child support when he feels like it. Sometimes I won't get any help for months on end...
It just depends whether you want to fight or not?
I don't want to invest the time or energy in fighting him - so I choose to raise my daughter without his help, financial or otherwise.
He chose to allow me to leave, on the condition he got all of our 'stuff'.
So now? He finds himself living in the middle east - 47 years of age, with a new muslim bride who just turned 19 and his life is peachy? lol
But damnit, I admit. I miss my pots and pans...they were good ones!
Sometimes, you got to step back and assess whether something is worth it. Your kids, are always worth it. Always.
Women and men are as vindictive of eachother.
Some women fight dirty and get lawyers who will fight dirty on their behalf.
Men steal the kids. Commit acts of murder to hurt their ex. Or throw themselves and their children from bridges in broad daylight out of desperation and malice.
It's all a sign, that our system is broken. When despair and disillusionment is that deep....that people will commit acts of such atrocity...just to bring pain to another person?
Incredibly and deeply sad.
You're right coaltrain, plenty of men wrought the system too and do exactly what you've outlined above.
See, to me, sometimes when people breakup - it becomes emotional warfare, rather than keeping the children's best interests at the centre of any dealings. Breakups can be bitter and nasty and people say and threaten awful things to eachother.
Like my ex told me if I ever left him - he'd steal my daughter and take her to the middle east somewhere and hide with her and I'd never see her again. He threatened that more than once too.
So when I left?
I had one suitcase and my baby. And I flew home.
He got everything, the house, the bank accounts, the contents of our 11 years of life together. Every thing, every penny, all of it.
As far as I'm concerned, a very small price to pay - for peace? lol
I have never fought him for anything. I don't want anything from him. He pays child support when he feels like it. Sometimes I won't get any help for months on end...
It just depends whether you want to fight or not?
I don't want to invest the time or energy in fighting him - so I choose to raise my daughter without his help, financial or otherwise.
He chose to allow me to leave, on the condition he got all of our 'stuff'.
So now? He finds himself living in the middle east - 47 years of age, with a new muslim bride who just turned 19 and his life is peachy? lol
But damnit, I admit. I miss my pots and pans...they were good ones!
Sometimes, you got to step back and assess whether something is worth it. Your kids, are always worth it. Always.
Women and men are as vindictive of eachother.
Some women fight dirty and get lawyers who will fight dirty on their behalf.
Men steal the kids. Commit acts of murder to hurt their ex. Or throw themselves and their children from bridges in broad daylight out of desperation and malice.
It's all a sign, that our system is broken. When despair and disillusionment is that deep....that people will commit acts of such atrocity...just to bring pain to another person?
Incredibly and deeply sad.