Trump - Republican Nominee (President)

[Goosey]

this. the forum would be a far better place without him

No, I'm not saying that.

But I've never seen a poster like this that continually goes after people for having a say.
barry, you say that's what you do with your mates, that's all good, but we are not your mates, this is the Internet with most of the people tooling with you are anonymous, you know nothing about then, you treat them like your mates, it doesn't work that way.

ive stated before that I like to be challenged, not harassed.

 

[Grunta]

This forum?
*people cannot generally take a joke

we are all good people here although not many here (numbers), do come back here to see the aggressive, immature and argumentative posts?

Or do you just like to talk about weightlifting and the good things it produces?

1. Yep, kunce just need to lighten the fuck up.
2. The answer is both, many will come to read about bbing and also for the entertainment such as this thread.

 

[Bazza20]

No, I'm not saying that.

But I've never seen a poster like this that continually goes after people for having a say.
barry, you say that's what you do with your mates, that's all good, but we are not your mates, this is the Internet with most of the people tooling with you are anonymous, you know nothing about then, you treat them like your mates, it doesn't work that way.

ive stated before that I like to be challenged, not harassed.

I find it amusing. Have a look at this thread. I basically agreed with Darko and Grunt after they had already had a long argument with JW. Once I said that JW and Repacked jump in and attacked me.

Who is going after who.

 

[Goosey]

I find it amusing. Have a look at this thread. I basically agreed with Darko and Grunt after they had already had a long argument with JW. Once I said that JW and Repacked jump in and attacked me.

Who is going after who.

Who is going after who, good question.

 

[Darkoz]

Back on topic pls or I start deleting

Please leave the pics I posted this time Shreky

 

[Johnnie Walker]

I find it amusing. Have a look at this thread. I basically agreed with Darko and Grunt after they had already had a long argument with JW. Once I said that JW and Repacked jump in and attacked me.

Who is going after who.

maybe because they dont try and claim so pathetic victory

 

[Darkoz]

I find it amusing. Have a look at this thread. I basically agreed with Darko and Grunt after they had already had a long argument with JW. Once I said that JW and Repacked jump in and attacked me.

Who is going after who.

Just to be clear, JW was arguing with me and Grunta

 

[Goosey]

Please leave the pics I posted this time Shreky

Kapow!

 

[Grunta]

Just to be clear, JW was arguing with me and Grunta

Grunta and I, ya Adeladian hick kunce

 

[Darkoz]

Grunta and I, ya Adeladian hick kunce

I can't talk as good as you

 

[Grunta]

I can't talk as good as you

And I teached myself

 

[Darkoz]

Impressive

 

[Repacked]

Definitions from the website of an American Law Enforcement Agency (which given the jurisdiction of the offences is most relveant):

Defining a Hate Crime
A hate crime is a traditional offense like murder, arson, or vandalism with an added element of bias. For the purposes of collecting statistics, the FBI has defined a hate crime as a “criminal offense against a person or property motivated in whole or in part by an offender’s bias against a race, religion, disability, sexual orientation, ethnicity, gender, or gender identity.” Hate itself is not a crime—and the FBI is mindful of protecting freedom of speech and other civil liberties.
These efforts serve as a backstop for investigations by state and local authorities, which handle the vast majority of hate crime cases throughout the country.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/hate_crimes/overview

Definitions of Terrorism in the U.S. Code​

18 U.S.C. § 2331 defines "international terrorism" and "domestic terrorism" for purposes of Chapter 113B of the Code, entitled "Terrorism”:
"International terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:

• Involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
• Appear to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
• Occur primarily outside the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S., or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate or coerce, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.*

"Domestic terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:

• Involve acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
• Appear intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination. or kidnapping; and
• Occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S.

18 U.S.C. § 2332b defines the term "federal crime of terrorism" as an offense that:

• Is calculated to influence or affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion, or to retaliate against government conduct; and
• Is a violation of one of several listed statutes, including § 930(c) (relating to killing or attempted killing during an attack on a federal facility with a dangerous weapon); and § 1114 (relating to killing or attempted killing of officers and employees of the U.S.).

* FISA defines "international terrorism" in a nearly identical way, replacing "primarily" outside the U.S. with "totally" outside the U.S. 50 U.S.C. § 1801(c).

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/terrorism/terrorism-definition



Given the definitions above, how do you categorise acts that contain elements of both definitions?

Does an act have to be categorised as one or the other? (Insert obligatory 'un-funny' meme)

To highlight the political importance of the categorisaion of acts like these consider the following:

'It’s an important question. How extremist crimes are labeled by officials directly affects how offenders are charged, their likelihood of being convicted and the severity of their sentences. Labels are also symbolic acknowledgments by the government of the harms inflicted on the nation by terrorists, and on specific social groups by hate crimes. These labels can shape how the public thinks about extremist crimes.'

Considering this, would acts not be likely to be labelled where possible, in accordance with the desired social and political outcomes e.g. punishment?

However...


Overlap is possible

A few attacks are both terrorist acts and hate crimes. The mass shooting by Omar Mateen that occurred at the Pulse nightclub in Orlando is one such example.
These attacks are violent and are committed by far rightists, al-Qaida or Islamic State (IS) supporters to further their extremist ideology. That makes them terrorism.
These attacks also purposefully target racial, sexual orientation or religious minorities, and so are hate crimes too.

Targets of al-Qaida and IS fatal attacks in the U.S. since 1990. U.S. Extremist Crime Database, National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism, CC BYOf the 196 far-right extremist homicides we identified, 50 percent targeted racial or ethnic minorities, nine percent were hate crimes against the LGBT community and around 10 percent targeted religious minorities.

Targets of far right extremists. U.S. Extremist Crime Database, National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to TerrorismOf the 44 al-Qaida and IS homicides we identified, seven percent targeted the Jewish community while another four percent targeted the LGBT community.

A notable number of these fatal attacks, by both the far-right and al-Qaida extremists, would be classified as both terrorist acts and hate crimes by many definitions.

Note the last three words above. 'BY MANY DEFINITIONS'. Is there a globally accepted definition of terrorism and hate crime that can neatly categorise any event as either one or the other? No. Accepted definitions will change to encompass the range of extremist behaviors as the emerge.

As you can see it is possible for events like the Orlando shooting to be categorised as both domestic terrorism and hate crimes.



Additional politico-legal factors worth considering include:


The decision to bring terrorism-related charges or add a hate crimes charge rests with the prosecutor.
Heidi Beirich, director of the Southern Poverty Law Center's Intelligence Project, says if prosecutors feel evidence against a suspect is already solid then adding hate crime charges may be an unnecessary complication to the case. The incentive is especially strong in capital murder cases, where there is no higher penalty to give.


Terrorism prosecutions are harder to prove than regular crimes, Dr LaFree says, in part because the crucial parts of the charges rely on motive and other psychological factors.
"A relatively small number of cases of those that could be classified as terrorism are actually prosecuted as terrorism," he says, adding a study of Justice Department cases that went forward with terror charges had a lower rate of conviction than those that didn't".

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-33205339


There are many factors that will dictate how an act is legally categorised beyond what the lay person considers. The eventual legal classification of an act, and therefore how it is portrayed in the media may differ from individuals perceptions because of this. Acts may however be seen as having elements of hate based crime and terrorist acts. The ultimate classification of the act (if not classified or 'enhanced' using both descriptors) will likely depend on a combination of socio-legal and political factors.



Further reading:

https://www.start.umd.edu/

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09546553.2012.713229 (paid subscriptions only)

https://www.researchgate.net/public...ue_on_Lone_Wolf_and_Autonomous_Cell_Terrorism

https://www.fbi.gov/

https://newrepublic.com/article/134319/orlando-shooting-hate-crime-terrorist-act-answer-matters

 

[Grunta]

Yeah I do pretty good

 

[Bazza20]

Just to be clear, JW was arguing with me and Grunta

Nice.

 

[Johnnie Walker]

Terrorism prosecutions are harder to prove than regular crimes, Dr LaFree says, in part because the crucial parts of the charges rely on motive and other psychological factors.
"A relatively small number of cases of those that could be classified as terrorism are actually prosecuted as terrorism," he says, adding a study of Justice Department cases that went forward with terror charges had a lower rate of conviction than those that didn't".

because they have to use the real deffinition of terrorism not the ausbb one.

 

[Shrek]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUwsqI3chPY

 

[Fadi]

That's exactly what I was talking about before; more talking (and hopefully more understanding and respect comes out of it), and less finger pointing and wall/barrier building that comes from an attitude of an "us vs them", resulting in nothing more than more hatred, more misunderstandings, and a community that is more alienated at its core. That's what I'd call self imposed inner terrorism, fueled by the cheapest commodity of them all: ignorance.

 

[Bazza20]

Trump - Republican Nominee

Part of the transcripts from the shooter calling 911.

My name is I pledge of allegiance to (omitted),” Mateen responded “I pledge allegiance to [omitted] may God protect him (in Arabic), on behalf (omitted).”

It's a tough argument to make that religiously motivated terrorism isn't a major part of the motivation for this shooting.


Also

The FBI said hostage negotiators called Mateen three times — at 2.48am, 3.03am and 3.24am. Mateen told officials that the US needed to stop bombing Iraq and Syria, explaining that’s why he was “out here right now.”

The FBI says Mateen identified himself as an Islamic soldier.

 

[spartacus]

yes bazza, pretty obvious he was inspired by a particular group, and pretty obvious all Western societies should indeed be worried by a such a group.

I am.