Strength or Body Building ?

[Muu]

Thanks for the candidness of the replies, I think I’m enjoying the banter.

Oliver04: I suppose my question was referring to the site, if it was more of a strength associated opposed to bodybuilding and I agree to one of your later posts about some bodybuilders being strong, most of the pros do huge numbers. I believe Lee Priest who was a ‘Novacastrian’ like you could squat 3 times his body weight.

Gareer: I absolutely support the positive benefits of lifting and lifting heavy, I wish I was strong like I was when I was young and pre-knee surgery.
Dancelot: I’m well aware that powerlifters don’t just to 1 rep max, but thanks for pointing it out. I like your attitude like “I'm fucking psyched, like a fat kid in a bakery!!!”, you have the mind battle won, that awesome man.
JDizzle: I’m keen to get talk to as many good trainers as possible.. people who can do it, know something..
Kyle: I like your attitude mate. I Love lifting and lifting heavy, I would like to hear what you have to say when I start posting up some training sessions I complete.

 

[TrentZor]

I like the guys who weigh 110kg saying up me 70kg your only squatting 130-140kg go heavier. Then I see em squatting 180kg.

Shouldnt it be double bodyweight for the same?? Does it make the 110kg a weakling??

 

[Oli]

I challenge someone to actually argue with me empirically how they attempt to maximize their bodybuilding with a 120-140kg squat. Lets take a look at some pros:

- Ronnie Coleman. 800lb double single ply @ 125kg approaching comp. Technique was poor, so lets assume he was practicing for a comp and did a single with that weight. He'd be extremely competitive in the IPF.

- Branch Warren. 765lb deadlift @ 110kg.

- Kai Green. 125kg, 220kg bench press.

- Johnnie Jackson. 825/600/800 total at 275.

- Stan Efferding: 372.5/275/360kg raw total at 125kg.

Okay so they're pros, lets have a look at some more reasonable lifters:

- Michael Keck: NPC heavyweight (3rd place), 550/475/605 raw total @ 110kg.

- Brad Castleberry: 1st in the 2006 musclemania comp, 110kg offseason with a 170kg comp bench.

- Layne Norton. 100kg with a 320kg deadlift.

Notice a pattern?

I like the guys who weigh 110kg saying up me 70kg your only squatting 130-140kg go heavier. Then I see em squatting 180kg.

Shouldnt it be double bodyweight for the same?? Does it make the 110kg a weakling??

Bodyweight is relative. Its pretty normal to see x3-4 bodyweight lifts in the 67.5kg division, even bolton's 1000lb just breaks 3 bodyweight. You're thinking of wilks...

 

[moons]

I like the guys who weigh 110kg saying up me 70kg your only squatting 130-140kg go heavier. Then I see em squatting 180kg.

Shouldnt it be double bodyweight for the same?? Does it make the 110kg a weakling??

Strength to bodyweight is not a linear relationship. Diminishing returns etc. That is why you always see the lighter classes elite with crazy (3+) multiples of bodyweight lift.

 

[Goosey]

Take that 140 and squat 20.

Give it a rest Oliver, you need to find another interest.

 

[TrentZor]

Ok gotcha about the bw being linear bit. Thanks

 

[Oli]

Take that 140 and squat 20.

Give it a rest Oliver, you need to find another interest.

 

[TrentZor]

Take that 140 and squat 20.

Give it a rest Oliver, you need to find another interest.

I can do 60kg for 20 reps is there sn association?? This topic intrigues me

 

[Goosey]

Lol...love that.

 

[Dancelot]

You're seeing things as if there are only two types of people, the motivated ones who get a 120kg squat in a few weeks, and the lazy unmotivated ones who never squat at all. At the very least there's a third type, the person who will do great things if they get some encouragement and instruction.

Your third type will do alright, but I've never heard of a Great in any field who's not super motivated all by him/herself. Please reserve the words "great things" to people who actually accomplish them.

I actually consider myself lazy. I don't train all that hard, compared to many PTC lifters or some people I've seen at my club.

You're doing well with your clients, and getting them to train right. That's a good thing. However, what you described of them is nothing but weak attitude. They require you to nurture and hold their hands through out and stupidly get intimidated by stronger people who have trained for much longer. And that's why you are their personal trainer and not their coach. That's fine, but call a spade a spade. People who can't bear the thought of themselves being weak are indeed weak, because they can't stand up to their own ego and can't control their insecurities.

Maybe one day those people you're training will have a strong attitude, but right now they're weak and need to get stronger. Nobody's born strong (except Hercules and Paul Anderson).

You have your work cut out for you, because those people are products of the decades-long self-esteem movement where they need an abundance of positive encouragement for the tiniest bit of achievement they manage, and any compliment less than the level of "you're awesome, you're beautiful, you're amazing, you're great etc." is an insult.

I'm just glad I don't have to do what you do.

Of course I don't talk like this to those people, but I think the ones who go seek out information on forums like this, like Muu, are already self-motivated enough and don't need the faux pats on the back. I believe they'd appreciate the more candid talks.

 

[Oli]

Off topic kyle I found a copy of my log when i just started. I'll copy and paste a few entries:

Wednesday 18th Feb
(Just got my weights today so I thought this week I'd work out today and Friday)

Workout A
- Squat: 110kg - all reps complete. (nice and easy after using 88kg for 3x12. Going to add another 5kg next workout).
- Bench: 67.5kg - 5/5/4. (one rep off, damn. I expect to get it next time).
- Deadlift: 120kg - 4. (Last week 110kg felt like butterfly weights so I got a little greedy. My grip just couldn't handle it. I'm going to try a mixed grip with the same weight next time and aim for better form).

Overall a solid workout. After reading a starting strength section on it I experimented with rest periods, trying 2 1/2 minutes rather than my usual 2. Will keep experimenting, particually as the squat and bench get heavier.

edit: sorry to be a noob but how can I get some colour into my posts? I'd like to bold and underline a few things but html code isnt working for me.

Friday 20th Feb

I went for a run on the thursday and my hamstrings were still hurting. I was a little nervous about this workout.

Workout B
- Squat: 115kg - all reps complete (form was a little off this time, but I think it was because of my run. I'm going to go up to 120kg, and then start using 2.5kg increments).
- Press: 42.5kg - all reps complete (longer rest breaks help heaps on this exercise).
- Row: 55kg - all reps complete (I still feel like I'm not working my back with this exercise, I might not increase it until I get my form right and also do some practices with an empty barbell on a few off days).

Monday 23rd

Workout A:
- Squat: 117.5kg - 5/5/3 (didnt make it. I lost form towards the end. I plan to improve form with this weight on wednesday)
- Bench: 67.5kg - All reps complete. (My 25kg york tyres go on now, ego boost!).
- Deadlift: 120kg - All reps complete. (The mixed grip made the difference. Not sure whether to do 5kg increments until 140 or 2.5kg. I guess I should pace myself).

In all pretty solid. Squat might be plateauing though. I'm going to aim for 120kg by the start of next week.

Wednesday 25th

- Squat: 117.5 - all reps complete (form was suprisingly great cept for the last rep. The other tyres go on next workout, yay!).
- Press: 45kg - all reps complete (my left arm didnt go up at the same pace as my right, hmm).
- Row: 57.5kg - all reps complete (still tightening form).

Very solid.

Friday 27th

Workout A:
- Squat: 120kg - all reps complete
- Bench: 70kg - all reps complete (totally stoked with this).
- Deadlift: 122.5kg - all reps complete. (form was a little off on the first reps, I think I might need an extra warm up set).

Totally psyched with how today went. Having made this progress with a cold also made this week extra special.

 

[Hirdy]

Lol @ Oliver, way to end a thread!!

I know this thread is old but as a novice who has just squatted sets of 102.5kg, 120kg sounds do-able but 140kg sounds like a bit of a stretch. Bay steps hey? I'm sure when I get to 120kg my view on what's possible could be totally different.

Anyway, lots of people want to bodybuild or get strong as a hobby (say Kyle's clients), and others see training as a lifelong obsession or even a career, in which case Olivers standards come into play.

Most people in commercial gyms don't want to be megastrong or compete in a BB comp, they just don't want to be high risk for a heart attack and will settle for looking better than half the population.

 

[TrentZor]

I always amuse myself thinking how many of the young guys who are keen now at the 18-25 age bracket will still be lifting consistently (3 times plus a week) 15 years later??
That is the true measure of lifting (consistency). Once u stop lifting your going to go back to being just a bit bigger/stronger than what u were before. No matter a powerlifter or bodybuilder.

When they realize the newbie gains have gone and that the small increments they get after the 4th-5th year of training will keep them going for the rest of their lives.