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"speed training"

dez said:
Not sure who that is directed to, but I only do speed work for deadlifts once a week (10 singles in 5 minutes), I would hardly call that fixating.

All you have done is quote someone without relating it to your own experiences.
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It wasn't aimed at anyone, just posting more info as I find it.

As I said before I think most of the benefit (there is benefit, lots of people get stronger from power work there is no denying that) comes from it being low stress restorative workout that gives you plenty of practice with competition technique. Not from increasing your power. Lots of people will notice their pulls getting faster with sub maximal weights (you're increasing power) but in competition you do not lift sub max weights, you lift a max weight and increasing power will not make a max lift faster
 
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0ni said:
It wasn't aimed at anyone, just posting more info as I find it.

As I said before I think most of the benefit (there is benefit, lots of people get stronger from power work there is no denying that) comes from it being low stress restorative workout that gives you plenty of practice with competition technique. Not from increasing your power. Lots of people will notice their pulls getting faster with sub maximal weights (you're increasing power) but in competition you do not lift sub max weights, you lift a max weight and increasing power will not make a max lift faster
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English please
 
Chains and bands will work if they slow you down through your weakest range of motion. Whether or not the also slow you down through your strongest range of motion does not matter.
The weakest range of motion is where you decelerate at the highest rate.

So when doing bands and chains, you need to film your set before and after. While we hypothesise that they work they will only work if you have a large amount of acceleration and deceleration throughout your rep with straight weight and have a steady velocity throughout the lift.

Even then, you still need to be doing the appropriate number of reps at the appropriate RPE for your force curve when you do your 1RM. A guy with a wedge force curve (lots of acceleration and deceleration) will get best results from doing 3-6 reps at a 9-10RPE and will also suit the accommodating resistance as long as it is set up so that the force curve is flat (whether or not chains or bands effectively do this is impossible to tell for any one lifter without actually trying it).
A guy with a flat force curve will benefit most from 1-3 reps at an 8-8.5RPE as they just need to practice force production at the weakest RoM. Adding accommodating resistance for these guys will not flatten their force curve any further as it is already flat and they actually need to try and make it more wedge shaped. Because of this I don't see adding bands and chains that effective for the lifter using this rep range and RPE. Instead paused reps, weight releasers and such would be a better alternative. Bands however will increase force production from the bottom due to the overspeed eccentric but not so much chains.

So bands and chains will have their benefit as long as you can figure out how to set them up so that your force curve is flattened if your 1RM has a lot of acceleration and deceleration and will suit the squat and deadlift more than the bench. I don't think that the power production is that important at all still unless you have a flat force curve. Even then I'd be more willing to do 1-3 reps at 8RPE than at 7RPE like Westside recommends. I think power production is more important for the equipped lifter hence the lower RPE.

That's the most sense I can make out of this after much thought. I went ahead and bought Mike Tuchscherer's DVD on force curve analysis and used that to help me figure this out. I haven't been able to find a definitive answer from Mike on this though so there is a chance that this might be wrong in some places. I think if you look at it at the simplest way you get the best results on this. If you have a wedge shaped force curve then do whatever flattens your force curve in each set. If you have a flat curve then do whatever increases force production at the weakest part of the RoM
 
Were there any quotes in post #84 Oni? Cause you neglected to mention any, and I cannot figure exactly where "someone" stops and you begin
 
bams_101 said:
Were there any quotes in post #84 Oni? Cause you neglected to mention any, and I cannot figure exactly where "someone" stops and you begin
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None of that is a quotation. Its what i have learned since whenever this topic started
 
That would be relevant if Paul Carter wasn't the biggest haters of speed work, bands and chains in the world and that whole rant was about keeping training to lifting heavy and doing reps. Unless of course, you changed views on speed work completely and were posting something to support what I was saying
 
Not quite, I liked the part about there being no point in arguing on forums and just focusing on lifting. I agree with a lot of what Paul Carter preaches in regards to training, but not everything. This goes for other people's articles who I read too like Justin Lascek.

My experience with speed training is something I tried out myself, it's probably not enough to be called Westside since I don't use bands or chains, but the intention of lifting a light weight as explosively as possible has helped me for deadlifts.

0ni said:
None of that is a quotation. Its what i have learned since whenever this topic started
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Did you learn all that from reading or lifting though?
 
Neither, I gave the fucking citation right there in the damn post
Jesus Christ
Jimmies = rustled

If you have success doing something, then keep doing it. It doesn't mean that the reasons why it worked are the reasons why you think it works. I explicitly mentioned over 9000 times that it's clear DE type workouts improve strength over time
 
0ni said:
Neither, I gave the fucking citation right there in the damn post
Jesus Christ
Jimmies = rustled

If you have success doing something, then keep doing it. It doesn't mean that the reasons why it worked are the reasons why you think it works. I explicitly mentioned over 9000 times that it's clear DE type workouts improve strength over time
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ngbbs4f27a2659414c.jpg
 
Your power level is not important in a sport based on max force production. No matter how OVER 9000 it is
 
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