Slow and steady weight loss? I think not

[jzpowahz]

I came across this today, and i agree with a fair bit. This is from my experience only

http://www.nowloss.com/starvation-mode-myth.htm

Not a bad read.

The main reason why your metabolism slows down is because you lose weight (see #3) but overall…

yes, but there is still a portion of the downregulated metabolism that goes beyond the predicted amount from the loss of weight. This is called adaptive thermogenesis

Have I gone into starvation or survival mode because I'm eating less than 1200 calories per day & I can't lose weight?

No and here's 4 reasons why…

1. The Minnesota starvation experiment
In the Minnesota starvation experiment 36 men where placed on a very low 1570 calorie starvation diet (which is equal to about 1200 calories for women) and they were also required to walk 3+ miles per day and…

All of the men in that experiment kept losing weight week after week and they didn't stop losing weight until they got very skinny or until they got down to 5% body fat or basically…

They kept losing weight until they looked like this…

starvation or survival mode
I'm not showing you that picture to shock you but I'm showing you that picture to prove to you that you don't go into survival or starvation mode because no matter how little you eat…

2. Your body does not hold onto fat
First of all, All of the FAT on your body is basically just stored energy and you should know that…
You get fat when you eat too much or eat too many calories or

take in too much energy that your body does not need and…
Your body takes the excess energy or calories you eat and stores it as fat so when you don't eat that much or…
When you don't eat enough calories/energy by going on a diet (whether it's a normal one or a VLCD) and/or exercise more than usual…
Your body will have to get its energy by burning fat or use the stored energy you built up from eating too much and…
Your body will NEVER stop burning fat until it's need for energy is balanced out so…

Look at the chart below to help you better understand exactly how weight loss, weight gain and maintaining your current weight works…

lose, gain or maintain weight
So…
Why would your body hold onto fat when it's starving for energy when you're on a diet &/or exercise plan? and…
Where else would your body get energy from if it's not the stored fat on your body when you're on a diet &/or exercise plan? and…
Does it make sense to you or your body to hold onto fat and burn muscle instead of the fat it has stored for backup energy? and…
I'm not saying you'll maintain all of your muscle mass as you lose weight but usually…

You'll only lose muscle as you lose weight if you're already very lean & you go on an extreme Very Low Calorie Diet without exercise but what I am saying is that…
Survival or Starvation mode DOES NOT MEAN your metabolism shuts down, your body holds onto fat and burns muscle for energy and really…
Survival or Starvation mode means your body actually burns fat (or all of your stored energy) to help you survive thru a period of starvation (like when you don't eat as much on a diet)
3. You don't always lose weight fast
Look at the picture above again but for example…

Let's say you weigh 150 pounds and you need to eat 2000 calories per day or your metabolism burns 2000 calories per day to maintain your weight and…
You go on a 1500 calorie diet and you quickly lose 5 pounds per week getting to 130 pounds in 1 month and then after that…
Instead of losing 5 pounds per week you start only losing 1-to-2 pounds per week or no weight at all so…
Does this mean you are in starvation or survival mode?

Of course not and here's what happening in this example…



Once you get to 130 pounds or even 149 pounds your metabolism no longer needs to burn 2000 calories to maintain your weight because as you lose weight…

Your metabolism burns less calories to help you maintain your new weight (simply because it takes less energy to take care of a smaller body) so once you reach 130 pounds in this example…

Your metabolism will slow down and your body may only need to burn 1500 calories a day to maintain your new weight so…
If you eat keep eating 1500 calories per day when your metabolism only burns 1500 calories at your new low weight of 130 pounds then…
You're going to maintain your weight or lose weight at a much slower rate than when you first started on your 1500 calorie diet when your metabolism burned 2000 calories per day so…
Does this mean your metabolism has slowed down so much that you can't lose anymore weight and you're stuck at 130 pounds?

NOPE &…

All this means is that instead of eating 1500 calories per day…
You'll need to eat less than 1500 calories per day and/or exercise more to keep losing weight and…
This is exactly what happens on any weight loss plan…

You always start off losing weight fast (probably more than 2 pounds per week at first) and then…
You get to a point where you're losing the normal 10 pounds every 4-to-6 weeks and then…
You reach a point where it seems like it takes forever to lose those last 5-to-20 pounds because…
The less you weigh doesn't necessarily mean your metabolism is slower…
It just means that someone who is at a normal weight does not have to burn as many calories to maintain their weight as someone who is overweight so…
Look at it this way…

A 300 pound person's metabolism probably burns 3000 calories per day and if they go on a 1200 calorie diet then they'll quickly lose a lot of weight but…
Once that same 300 pound person gets to 150 pounds they'll still lose weight but just not as fast since there metabolism probably now only burns 1500 calories per day.
4. Is it possible to stop gaining weight?
Let's say you ate a HUGE amount of calories everyday and let's say for this example you're eating 10,000 calories per day so…

Do you think after you gain 10 pounds that your body is going to go into some type of "mode" to prevent you from gaining weight?

NO &…

Even if it did where would all the excess energy or calories go? Would you crap it out? Not likely and if you did eat 10,000 calories per day…

Then yes there would be a point where you'd stop gaining weight and…

That would be when your metabolism starts to burn 10,000 calories per day right after you've gained 100, 200, 300 or 500+ pounds!

But the bottom line is this…

Just like it's real easy for you to gain weight from eating 2000, 3000 or 5000-to-10,000 calories per day…
You'll just as easily lose weight on a VLCD or eating only 500 calories (see hCG), 800, 1000 or 1200 calories per day and yes…
There is some evidence that your metabolism slows down a little bit in an attempt to adapt to your Very Low Calorie Diet but…
The main reason why your metabolism slows down is because you lose weight (see #3) but overall…
If you're eating less than 1200 calories per day then your metabolism will never get SO SLOW that you'll go into "starvation or survival mode" and not burn any fat so…

If you're hardly losing any weight on a VLCD or less than 1200 calories then…

See why you can't lose weight and/or look at how to break out of a weight loss plateau but There's really only 5 things you can do…

You can exercise more.
You can exercise harder.
You can double check your food journal to make sure you actually are eating less than 1200 calories and…
9 times out of 10 if you claim that you can't lose weight on less than 1200 calories then usually…

You're not tracking how much you eat correctly and you're underestimating how much you actually eat so make sure you're using a food journal and that you know how to count calories

You can eat even less than 1200 calories but that's probably not a good idea - see why.
Be more patient (see #3 again) because your weight loss starts out real fast and it progressively gets slower and slower as you get closer to your weight loss goal.

Important bit is in bold

 

[Rugby88]

I have to agree with what [MENTION=7082]jzpowahz[/MENTION]; bolded above - for simple weight loss it is simply about calories in V caolories out - you will find most people who are trying to drop weight are either underestimating what they eat, or they are simply lying to themselves/others about what they consume.

As I said weight loss is easy - just takes abit of drive and focus - then the rest is simply eat less/exercise more.

The media and the fitness industry build weight loss into this huge thing - of course - there has been a whole industry built around it/whole tv shows built around it - billions of dollars are year are following through this industry - they dont want people to know that it is simple - they dont want people to know that if you simply eat less and exercise more then you will drop the weight - in that regard I can understand where some people may see it as a hard thing to do - because they see how "big" the process is through tv/media etc - when really its not hard at all and I hate using myself as an example because really I am no example - but if a 14 year old with pretty much no knowledge (besides basic nutrition knowledge) can do it himself, with no1 guiding him, or pushing him - then everyone can do it.

 

[Bazza20]

Ask anyone to do a 20km jog. They'll know what to, one foot in front of the other until you finish.

Simple. Yes.

Easy. No.

Losing weight is pretty similar.

 

[Sydking]

I have to agree with what @jzpowahz ; bolded above - for simple weight loss it is simply about calories in V caolories out - you will find most people who are trying to drop weight are either underestimating what they eat, or they are simply lying to themselves/others about what they consume.

As I said weight loss is easy - just takes abit of drive and focus - then the rest is simply eat less/exercise more.

I aim for 1500, but i know il go a bit over logging every bit of food that hits my mouth, so i end up about 1650 most days which im happy with.

Ive learnt your only lying to yourself if you don't do it 110%, no one else gives a shit what i eat. so its up to me.

Either way im just over the moon that ive found something to finally work, i knew something wasent right as i was slowley gaining weight eating the calories that people said i should be eating, ie 2400, 2500.

 

[jzpowahz]

I have to agree with what @jzpowahz ; bolded above - for simple weight loss it is simply about calories in V caolories out - you will find most people who are trying to drop weight are either underestimating what they eat, or they are simply lying to themselves/others about what they consume.

As I said weight loss is easy - just takes abit of drive and focus - then the rest is simply eat less/exercise more.

The media and the fitness industry build weight loss into this huge thing - of course - there has been a whole industry built around it/whole tv shows built around it - billions of dollars are year are following through this industry - they dont want people to know that it is simple - they dont want people to know that if you simply eat less and exercise more then you will drop the weight - in that regard I can understand where some people may see it as a hard thing to do - because they see how "big" the process is through tv/media etc - when really its not hard at all and I hate using myself as an example because really I am no example - but if a 14 year old with pretty much no knowledge (besides basic nutrition knowledge) can do it himself, with no1 guiding him, or pushing him - then everyone can do it.

Yep. So much BS in the media and people trying to sell books that the basics of move more, eat less get forgotten.

Sydking: can't remember if I've asked this but have you had blood tests? Either your cal estimates are off or you have a VERY slow metabolism. This can be from a very long period of dieting with no refeeds/diet breaks.

As I said, I don't have a single female client on less than 1500/day. (I will if required but it hasn't been) Most are strength training primarily with some doing some other cardio but nothing excessive. Not the amounts you are doing anyway.

 

[0ni]

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=463549.msg6820319#msg6820319

 

[Sydking]

Yep. So much BS in the media and people trying to sell books that the basics of move more, eat less get forgotten.

Sydking: can't remember if I've asked this but have you had blood tests? Either your cal estimates are off or you have a VERY slow metabolism. This can be from a very long period of dieting with no refeeds/diet breaks.

As I said, I don't have a single female client on less than 1500/day. (I will if required but it hasn't been) Most are strength training primarily with some doing some other cardio but nothing excessive. Not the amounts you are doing anyway.

I had bloods done end of last year and they were all fine, Ive always said i have a slow metabolism but then again i dont know..... Ive never done low cals for long periods, this 1500 is the lowest i think ive ever eaten, ive never done real long diet periods either. Beats me.

Im just starting to do what works for my body, not what the IIFYM calculators tell me ect.

Even though my BRM is 2108 from my last dexa i was still gaining weight slowly/ stating same eating 2500 and 2700 calories.

I even did a 3 week re feed at 3100 calories like you suggested a while ago and then went back to 2500 and nothing at all with weight loss.

Ive lost 30kg before but i never new what a calorie was or good nutrition ect, Just shit loads of training.

 

[jzpowahz]

calculators are just estimates for sure.

It must be frustrating. Did your activity levels drastically change since you lose the 30kg?

You are still doing IIFYM now basically but your macros are required to be very low for some reason.

 

[Sydking]

calculators are just estimates for sure.

It must be frustrating. Did your activity levels drastically change since you lose the 30kg?

You are still doing IIFYM now basically but your macros are required to be very low for some reason.

Yer i got lazy for about 1.5 years after that. no training at all and eating what i wanted. So only me to blame.

But the last two years trying to do it all properly it just seems like nothing is working, hence the drastic drop to 1500 at day.

 

[0ni]

My metabolic rate is actually pretty high (diagnosed hyperthyroidism)
Bottom line is an hour of lifting a day, desk job and 75kg doesn't take a great deal to maintain

You can see in the thread above, there are people having great success with weeks of a protein sparing modified fast and they are above 90kg and pretty lean a lot of the time. Both natural and on steroids
One thing though, my thyroid did crash after months of "hard" dieting at 2000kcal, or 2200 maybe I forget. But a few weeks at 1000kcal and I was fine. Maybe it was a coincidence, maybe not

I don't see any reason why someone shouldn't do 8 weeks of this sort of dieting though. Strength will start to suck after that time but so what, you're dieting. It will come back when you increase the calories again
Beyond 8 weeks I think might be an issue, but I'm not really basing this off anything. If it takes longer than 8 weeks you were probably very fat or you're doing something wrong

 

[jamesyboi]

Anybody see Rachel's transformation on Biggest Loser S15?

Granted she lost some muscle on the way from 120 to 47 kgs but she was a work-horse.

She pre-made allot of her meals too when they were on the run, travel etc

I don't like the TBL approach but she was a beast in the gym.

 

[jzpowahz]

Oni: I don't think you can get any conclusions from what you have done because of A) gear and B) hyperthyroidism (more importantly).

There is going to be a hell of difference between 3 people one hypo, one "normal" and one hyperthyroid doing the same very low cal diet.

 

[judgey]

While you may be right jz, I'm not willing to just throw out what 0ni says purely for those reasons.

My wife is about to run the HCG diet (google it) for the second time as she won't be able to gym for a month (TBA). It's a modification of the crash diet in that you have a couple of days loading (eggs, salmon, avocado, dairy, cheese etc) and then do 21 days of very low calorie (the other calories coming from your fat stores). You then have a period where your metabolism has to reset. It worked incredibly well the first time round (9-10kg) PLUS it taught her to count calories (you try squeeze every last bit of food into 500 calories) and made her find low calories ways to enjoy eating lean meat and vegies. It also meant that when she started at gym she already was much closer to the shape she wanted. Oh the bit I left out was that you have to go to Terry White and buy these HCG drops.

 

[Bazza20]

While you may be right jz, I'm not willing to just throw out what 0ni says purely for those reasons.

My wife is about to run the HCG diet (google it) for the second time as she won't be able to gym for a month (TBA). It's a modification of the crash diet in that you have a couple of days loading (eggs, salmon, avocado, dairy, cheese etc) and then do 21 days of very low calorie (the other calories coming from your fat stores). You then have a period where your metabolism has to reset. It worked incredibly well the first time round (9-10kg) PLUS it taught her to count calories (you try squeeze every last bit of food into 500 calories) and made her find low calories ways to enjoy eating lean meat and vegies. It also meant that when she started at gym she already was much closer to the shape she wanted. Oh the bit I left out was that you have to go to Terry White and buy these HCG drops.

First the HCG diet is very stupid.

Second are those HCG drops homeopathic? Because if they are there is nothing actually in them.

I don't think you can just just buy HCG from the chemist, then I'm pretty sure it needs to be injected anyway. To get around that they decided to scam people with homeopathic HCG which is just water, so they can sell it no worries.

 

[GUZZLA]

Unless you're competing or simply experimenting out of interest, what is so hard about just eating sensibly day to day, exercising regularly and not making the consumption and timing of food harder than it needs to be?

All this IM, crash diets and other wacky diet ideas aren't sustainable for the majority, which means any benefits they might bring are only short term. Not a great thing if health and fitness is a long term proposition. Nothing brings long term results better than consistency and sustainability.

I'm convinced so many people shoot themselves in the foot getting caught up in the hype of all these diet fads. If they can't master the basics, they have no hope at the extremes.

 

[Bazza20]

In my opinion IIFYM is eating sensibly from day to day and very sustainable because it fits into normal eating and a normal life.

 

[GUZZLA]

Yeah Bazza, I agree with you on that. Above post edited to reflect that.

 

[judgey]

First the HCG diet is very stupid.

Second are those HCG drops homeopathic? Because if they are there is nothing actually in them.

I don't think you can just just buy HCG from the chemist, then I'm pretty sure it needs to be injected anyway. To get around that they decided to scam people with homeopathic HCG which is just water, so they can sell it no worries.

I agree - but I can't disagree with results.

 

[Bazza20]

I agree - but I can't disagree with results.

500 calories a day. What else is going to happen but lose weight. You are essentially not even eating anything. Long term results after crash dieting aren't usually great.

 

[jamesyboi]

A friend of mine doesn't eat a calorie on monday-wednesdays and fridays

He doesn't exercise much either but on the eating days I told him to do some bodyweight training for 30 mins a workout.

We have a weekly weigh-in at my work.

I heard of the HCG - 500 calories day thing, a lady at the dentist does it and she loved it