Pros and Cons of Drug Use

[Skalatharx]

I think you may have missed my point completely, (my fault for not been clearer).

What I meant to say is that if taking steroids gave you the muscles you wanted, it would be great to stop there, maintain those muscles for the long term. However for steroids to work, they would need to be taken regularly, hence why pro bodybuilders are on them for the duration of their bodybuilding careers.

You may say well that's not fair, and that I'm asking too much of steroids. And you would be right on the second count, as I am asking for something that would work long term (without necessarily turning you into a pro bodybuilder) yet provide you with enough muscles long term.

I'll give you a hint of where I'm going with this. You see there is something that works long term, for as long as you train properly and eat accordingly. That "thing" is insulin. Your endogenous as opposed to any exogenous insulin that is. To help along the way, carbs would have to enter the equation. It's all about manipulation of this most powerful anabolic hormone, and provision of the proper nutrients that would fuel the process, after a catalyst (as in the proper muscle stimulus) has been achieved.

Now that's part of what I meant by "long term". Thank you for reading.


Fadi.

Ahh yes, I see what you mean now. There are allot of research chemicals around that are being developed with the above mentioned. I just wonder if they can come up with a safe one over time. Don't think il be a guinea pig for that lol.

 

[0ni]

Firstly, that article is SO poorly written, I skipped parts.
The Article suggests that 4-6 on than an AI, then back on 4-6 weeks on again.

What the fuck is the point in that?

Its makes no mention of compounds or doses.

The only "evidence" you have posted is an "article" that has no references to ANYTHING.
That holds as much worth as me saying doing squats with one eye closed will raised testosterone by 567%

Lets take a look at what happens when somebody takes your (or Dante's) advice of running 4 weeks on, 2 weeks off, and then 4 weeks on again with testosterone enanthate.

Peak blood levels are reached around week 2 (1):



but in almost all experiences, gains dont come on till week 4. Now you want me to come off? And do a pct for 2 weeks, even though Test E has an active half life of 2 weeks (2)?



This means, whilst im running this PCT, im still shut down anyway because of all the exogenous testosterone thats floating around in my body. POINTLESS.
Then you say to get back on for 4 weeks and run another PCT?

People who run a blast and cruise method, like I stated run a gram, cruise for a few weeks at 200mg, then run a gram again. Not run a PCT and go again. That might be A method, but that is NOT blast/cruise.

or

people bridge their cycles.

For anybody else reading, the recommended time between cycles is time on +PCT = time off.
So a 12 week cycle + 2 weeks off + PCT is 18 weeks before you SHOULD go again.



(1) What is it about the cypionate ester that makes it take 5-6 weeks? [Archive] - Anabolic Steroids - Steroid.com / Anabolic Review Forums
(2)Testosterone Enanthate - Steroid .com

You would obviously use test prop and not test enanthate for 8 weeks on 2 weeks off. use your head! Dante knows a lot more than you, his evidence is in the countless improvements in bodybuilders he churns out. I'm not even going to bother responding to a guy on a forum vs dante argument. His experience will always trump yours. Plus the thousands of mexican and eastern european lifters that use this method. Yes thousands of people do this, so how can you say it doesn't work? Or that it's a silly way of doing things? There is no evidence to suggest that 8 weeks on 2 weeks off doesn't work and loads of evidence that it does work. How do you think professional athletes get to stay on the gear all year round?

 

[Sticky]

No doubt.

I'm glad you were smart enough to run dbol and a bombs.

YOU DA MAN!

Neither you nor Dante made mention of compounds of doses.

This is an open forum, where people with no idea (even less than you) come looking for advice.
These people may have read your post and ran the cycle I posted.

I know the compound isn't E, but not everybody does.

And I'm not saying blast/cruise doest work, I know it does.
Your interpretation of the method is incorrect though. Which is the thing I wanted to originally clear up.

 

[0ni]

No doubt.

I'm glad you were smart enough to run dbol and a bombs.

YOU DA MAN!

Neither you nor Dante made mention of compounds of doses.

This is an open forum, where people with no idea (even less than you) come looking for advice.
These people may have read your post and ran the cycle I posted.

I know the compound isn't E, but not everybody does.

And I'm not saying blast/cruise doest work, I know it does.
Your interpretation of the method is incorrect though. Which is the thing I wanted to originally clear up.

It delights me that you have no arguments other than ad hominem. I won't bother responding to your ignorant, non-viable posts anymore. People here are running compounds such as methylated tren which are a lot more toxic than the cycle I ran and yet I am apparently the silly one

 

[Shrek]

You two can agree to disagree.

 

[Fadi]

I fail to see why we have to get personal. I'm not just referring to this thread, but to any thread where the aim to learn and grow in knowledge ends up being narrowed down to something other than why we're all here in the first place.

That's my opinion; perhaps I'm guilty of being too much of a pacifist...


Fadi.

 

[Fadi]

Ahh yes, I see what you mean now. There are allot of research chemicals around that are being developed with the above mentioned. I just wonder if they can come up with a safe one over time. Don't think il be a guinea pig for that lol.

Thank you Skalatharx. In fact I wasn't aware of research being done on chemicals that would serve the purpose I was alluding to. That being the case, I was not referring to any form of chemicals, but rather more of a natural avenue towards gaining muscle size.

I've mentioned one very powerful way above in Insulin. Another way is with the amino acid Leucine. Though I mention Leucine, I'm more in favour of taking this amino acid when in it is found in its natural environment, and found in abundance. That natural environment is called WPI.

Shrek's original post had us ponder over the following title: Pros and Cons of Drug Use. I find of the cons to steroids use/abuse is that many athletes (not all) have stopped looking for genuinely powerful alternatives to the gears.

In case some of you feel that I am taking the side of the “Cons”, as opposed to the “Pros”, I say that that would be too simplistic. I’d be the first person to change sides if and when anyone (other than an athlete) starts attacking the use/abuse of steroids by our community. Why would I change sides quicker than you can spell my name? Because I detest hypocrisy; because I hate double-standards, because I hate people who are too quick and hasty in their judgement of athletes before taking a good hard look at their own habits and activities.

Thank you for reading.


Fadi.

 

[Rugby88]

Anyone reading this please DO NOT run 8 week cycles with a 2 week PCT. Be smart, simple as that.

 

[0ni]

Anyone reading this please DO NOT run 8 week cycles with a 2 week PCT. Be smart, simple as that.

Again, please explain why such a cycle isn't 'smart'. Bearing in mind that the 2 week PCT is just a break between another 8 week cycle with a FULL PCT afterwards

 

[Rugby88]

Again, please explain why such a cycle isn't 'smart'. Bearing in mind that the 2 week PCT is just a break between another 8 week cycle with a FULL PCT afterwards

Its really not the best idea to be doing that for a 1st cycle mate - plz im not going to go into a fight over this or anything.

Pretty simple really just dont do it.

The post sticky posted up is what your 1st cycle should look like and really what the base of most cycles should look like.

 

[0ni]

Its really not the best idea to be doing that for a 1st cycle mate - plz im not going to go into a fight over this or anything.

Pretty simple really just dont do it.

The post sticky posted up is what your 1st cycle should look like and really what the base of most cycles should look like.

Who mentioned a first cycle? I said that it was a way that pros stay on the gear all year round.

 

[Rugby88]

Who mentioned a first cycle? I said that it was a way that pros stay on the gear all year round.

And you think thats a good idea lol.

 

[0ni]

I've already stated above why it's a preferred method for people who want to stay on the gear all year round. Even good for people that want to run a cycle once a year or twice a year.

Ive stated
many times what i think someone who is using 1 or 2 cycles a year should do, 4-8 weeks
blasting and 2 weeks cruising. So if it was one cycle and one only this year you would do
something akin to 4-8 weeks on, 2 weeks antiestrogens and hcg and then 4-8 weeks on
again and pct therapy again and off. That basically is a 8-16 week cycle thats going to be
very easy to keep muscle mass when you get off instead of the guys who hammer
themself for 4 months straight and cross their fingers when they get off with clomid that
they dont disengrate (laughable because it happens 90% of the time) ........So Ive already
hit on that limited super supplement usage that people do above too many times to count
over the last 3 years............and to be brutally honest theres alot of guys (elite pros, top
amateurs and advanced bodybuilders) that are running year round and I know those guys
want to hear what Im going to say on this. SO DONT GET YOUR GODDAMN
PANTIES IN A WAD IF THIS GOES AGAINST WHAT YOU PERSONALLY FEEL
IS RIGHT AND MORALLY SOUND YOU HOLIER THAN THOU PROHORMONE
ABUSERS AND ONCE A YEAR CYCLERS. Examples of some athletes in Europe or
Mexico (where this is all legal)
7 weeks on 2 weeks cruising
6 weeks on 1 week cruising
8 weeks on 2 weeks cruising
7 weeks on 7-10days cruising

Again, the above is a quote from Dante, the inventor of DC training who trains a lot of people with this method and gives them great results without ruining their HPTA

 

[Sticky]

Im still struggling to see where ther PTC is during the cycle.

I see blast/cruise.

Also, HCG should be run during cycle to keep the HPTA from shutting down at all.

 

[0ni]

Im still struggling to see where ther PTC is during the cycle.

I see blast/cruise.

Also, HCG should be run during cycle to keep the HPTA from shutting down at all.

I agree about HCG being ran throughout the cycle and it clearly states that AIs or AEs are ran in the cruising part. While it's not full PCT, it will keep the HPTA in check better than a full 8-16 week cycle with no gap in the middle will and as stated above, the difference in results between blast/cruise and a full 8-16 week cycle were non-existent.

 

[Fadi]

I've already stated above why it's a preferred method for people who want to stay on the gear all year round. Even good for people that want to run a cycle once a year or twice a year.

Oni, here's my observation of the above two sentences. I'll only choose two words from each to make my point (in which there is a lesson/advice for anyone who wishes to take it).

1. I whole heartedly believe in such a thing as a preferred method.

2. I would never apply the term "good" when supraphysiological dosages of steroids are used, never! I would say that irrespective of the context just so I'm clear here. So whether expert A knows his stuff much better than steroid guru B, to me nothing both are doing can be termed as "good".

The above would not have been something I would have written in my teens, or twenties.


Fadi.

 

[Hirdy]

I know nothing about steroids except what I have read on these forums and don't ever intend to use them, unless they were recommended and prescribed to me by my doctor.

I would find it alarming to hear that people inject substances into themselves that have been imported illegaly and sold on the black market. There is clearly much debate on what is safe/good/dangerous/wastefull/ineffective but general agreement that it can have disastrous effects if not used properly.

I would hope that no one goes and sources steroids and uses them purely based on what they have read on this website or any other. People seem to think it's okay if you know what you are doing, but how do you know if you are doing it right unless you have a doctor helping you? It seems to be pretty risky behavior with vanity being the motivator.

I do find the debate interesting though.

 

[0ni]

I know nothing about steroids except what I have read on these forums and don't ever intend to use them, unless they were recommended and prescribed to me by my doctor.

I would find it alarming to hear that people inject substances into themselves that have been imported illegaly and sold on the black market. There is clearly much debate on what is safe/good/dangerous/wastefull/ineffective but general agreement that it can have disastrous effects if not used properly.

I would hope that no one goes and sources steroids and uses them purely based on what they have read on this website or any other. People seem to think it's okay if you know what you are doing, but how do you know if you are doing it right unless you have a doctor helping you? It seems to be pretty risky behavior with vanity being the motivator.

I do find the debate interesting though.

You can be sure that anything regarding hormones that you read on steroid.com is legit advice. But everyone reacts differently to hormones. Two of my gym buddies both ran 80mg of t-bol a day for a few months and one blew up and added 30lbs to his frame and the other it didn't make much of a difference at all. They both started on similar weights and were on the same routine and both ate like a horse etc

 

[Sticky]

I would hope that no one goes and sources steroids and uses them purely based on what they have read on this website or any other. People seem to think it's okay if you know what you are doing, but how do you know if you are doing it right unless you have a doctor helping you? It seems to be pretty risky behavior with vanity being the motivator.

I do find the debate interesting though.

Trust me when I say, a number of people on this site, and a massive amount of others from various sites know much more about AAS then 90% of doctors.

 

[Tyrone B.]

I'd trust knowledge gained through extensive research from many various sources on the internet over some quack who quite literally knows nothing about steroids. Not to discredit doctors at all but lets face it, they can't and don't learn everything about every aspect of the body at medical school (hence why we have specialists); nutrition being another area they receive little instruction in (yet most people would trust advice of their doctor about their diet, right?).

Perhaps, to avoid confusion to anyone newbies considering a cycle reading this forum section someone should post up some basic info, first cycles, links to sources P), etc....