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Opinions on this routine..

Monday: Chest & Biceps
3 sets bench press 6-8 reps
3 sets dumbbell incline press - 6-10 reps
3 sets weighted chest dips - 6-10
2 sets flyes - 12-15
3 sets barbell curls - 6 - 10 reps
3 sets dumbbell curls (or more bb curls) - 8-12 reps

Tuesday: Legs
3 sets of squats - 6 - 8 reps
4 sets of leg press - 8 - 10 reps
4 sets of leg extensions - 10 - 15 reps
4 sets of leg curls - 10 - 15 reps
6 total sets of calf raises (do what you calf exercise you want, or do 2) 8 - 15 reps


Thursday: Shoulders
3 sets of miliatary press 6 - 8 reps
3 sets lateral raises - 10 - 15 reps
3 sets rear raises - 10 -15 reps
abs... hanging leg raises 5 sets 10 reps, add another ab exercise if you want...

Friday: Back and tricep
4 sets of wide grip chins until failure - get to 12 or so, then add weight 8 - 12 reps
3 sets of deadlifts - 5 reps
3 sets of bent over rows - 6 - 10 reps
3 sets of T-bar rows - 6 - 12 reps
4 sets weighted tricep dips (body upright) - 6 - 10 reps
2/3 sets ez bar skull crushers 10 - 15 reps

you could add triceps into shoulders if you wanted
 
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You'd benefit more from shoving triceps onto the end of shoulders and leaving back by itself or with a bit of abs, considering your back is quite substantially larger than your shoulders.
 
You'd benefit more from shoving triceps onto the end of shoulders and leaving back by itself or with a bit of abs, considering your back is quite substantially larger than your shoulders.

Especially considering the shoulder to tricep workout had only 24 hours for recovery.
 
I'm not even sure you need a dedicated "shoulders" day anyway.

As you say they are a small muscle group vs quads, hams, glutes, lats, traps, rhomboid, pecs, abs, muscles of the lumbar region etc
+ as someone else pointed out they get a lot of stimulation in other exercises - anterior delts particularly in bench orientated exercises and rear delts in horizontal pulling exercises.

Monday: Quad dominant lower
- BB Back Squat 3-4 x 10-15
- BB Front Squat 2-3 x 6-10
- Wide Grip Lat Pulldown 2-3 x 8-12
- Romanian Deadlift 2-3 x 8-12
- Walking Lunges 2-3 x 6-10 (each leg)
- Hanging Leg Raises 2-3 x 6-10

Wednesday: Pec dominant Upper
- Dips 4-5 x 4-8
- DB Bench Press 2-3 x 15-25
- Lying Triceps Extensions 2-3 x 8-12
- Close Grip Cable Row 3-4 x 8-12
- DB Bent Over Laterals ss DB Fly 2-3 x 15-25
- DB Curls 3-4 x 10-15

Friday: Hamstring dominant lower
- BB Conventional Deadlift 4-5 x 2-6
- Leg Curls 2-3 x 8-12
- Belt Squats 2-3 x 10-15
- BB Sumo Deadlift 2-3 x 8-12
- Standing Ab Pulldowns 2-3 x 15-25

Saturday: Shoulder dominant upper
- BB Overhead Press 3-4 x 6-10
- DB Incline Press 2-3 x 8-12
- JM Press 2-3 x 15-25
- Wide Grip Pull Ups 3-4 x 8-12
- Rear Delt Pec Deck ss DB Lateral Raises 3-4 x 12-20
- BB Curls 2-3 x 10-15


No idea what the push:pull ratio is. First glance looks a little push dominant so the rows, pull ups, curls can be done for an extra set or 2. If Monday looks too hard or takes to long drop the lunges.
Template is a bit more of a PL/Strength based one but you'll still get hypertrophy if you eat enough (like any program/template I guess lol)
 
Monday: Chest & Biceps
3 sets bench press 6-8 reps
3 sets dumbbell incline press - 6-10 reps
3 sets weighted chest dips - 6-10
2 sets flyes - 12-15
3 sets barbell curls - 6 - 10 reps
3 sets dumbbell curls (or more bb curls) - 8-12 reps

Tuesday: Legs
3 sets of squats - 6 - 8 reps
4 sets of leg press - 8 - 10 reps
4 sets of leg extensions - 10 - 15 reps
4 sets of leg curls - 10 - 15 reps
6 total sets of calf raises (do what you calf exercise you want, or do 2) 8 - 15 reps


Thursday: Shoulders
3 sets of miliatary press 6 - 8 reps
3 sets lateral raises - 10 - 15 reps
3 sets rear raises - 10 -15 reps
abs... hanging leg raises 5 sets 10 reps, add another ab exercise if you want...

Friday: Back and tricep
4 sets of wide grip chins until failure - get to 12 or so, then add weight 8 - 12 reps
3 sets of deadlifts - 5 reps
3 sets of bent over rows - 6 - 10 reps
3 sets of T-bar rows - 6 - 12 reps
4 sets weighted tricep dips (body upright) - 6 - 10 reps
2/3 sets ez bar skull crushers 10 - 15 reps

you could add triceps into shoulders if you wanted


Following a variation of this program and it has been very effective so far, am now weighing in at 90.4 which is my heaviest ever :) also put on a fair bit of size, not that i have noticed much but never fail to get comments from people at the gym - usually asking if i jumped on a cycle haha or just from people I haven't seen in a while which is good!!

Have also cleaned up my eating but still eating a lot...

So will stick with this routine for about 6 months and see how it goes, hopefully keeps yielding good results!!



Cheers :)
 
Now fellas, lets keep the logic and reasoning to a dull level and make sure there's ample bro science going on.


Sorry, wrong message board.


Do a pretty simple workout like 'Starting strength', getting a strong foundation for 18 months before working on getting big will be of great benifit.
 
Have you ever seen anyone that deadlifts 800lb with small arms bro?
Clearly deadlifts are an amazing arm builder

I'm not sure about this. I've had a bit of time to sit back and think about it. I've heard the reasoning a lot over the last few years. " You'll have big arms when you can 'bench press 1.5x body weight' " or " Squatting 2x body weight will make your legs 'big' "

In the study of logic and reasoning, it's called a conditional. An example of this is 'If you pass your driving test, I'll buy you a car'. If the first part of the statement is true, then the second half is true. If either of them are false...the statement is false. " If you do NOT pass your driving test, I will buy you a car". "I will buy you a new car if you pass your driving test".

Is it true once you have 'big' legs you'll be able to squat 2-2.5 x body weight? Or those with large arms are able to deadlift around 3x body weight? I am not sure.
 
I'm not sure about this. I've had a bit of time to sit back and think about it. I've heard the reasoning a lot over the last few years. " You'll have big arms when you can 'bench press 1.5x body weight' " or " Squatting 2x body weight will make your legs 'big' "

In the study of logic and reasoning, it's called a conditional. An example of this is 'If you pass your driving test, I'll buy you a car'. If the first part of the statement is true, then the second half is true. If either of them are false...the statement is false. " If you do NOT pass your driving test, I will buy you a car". "I will buy you a new car if you pass your driving test".

Is it true once you have 'big' legs you'll be able to squat 2-2.5 x body weight? Or those with large arms are able to deadlift around 3x body weight? I am not sure.

calm down man it was clearly a joke
lol @ you spending that long reading into my ramblings tho
 
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*Read programs in this thread*

*Runs screaming from the thread*

Edit: if you do have your mind set on following the horribly inefficient path (for beginners) of splits then why not at least have some balance.

Try Push/Legs/Pull/Legs and you can even split the leg sessions between quad and ham dominant.
 
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Not too worried about the legs department pal, i feel they're aesthetic enough ;) hehe

I think your all about strength freak - I'm going more for the beach bod if you will and so far this program is helping me achieve just that :)

Pretty sure I have really good genetics though so doing legs once a week is ample, I'm already having trouble fitting into some of my jeans which is also turning me off training them - I don't wear skinny jeans but it's starting to get that way since I've been training legs every week hahah!!

My weights have also improved a bit...
BP - 47.5 KG DB's or 100KG BB - 8 reps.
DL - 120KG (I feel as if i could go heavier although, I'm still trying to get that proper form dialled in)
Squats - 90KG

Cheers :)
 
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Not too worried about the legs department pal, i feel they're aesthetic enough ;) hehe

I think your all about strength freak - I'm going more for the beach bod if you will and so far this program is helping me achieve just that :)

Pretty sure I have really good genetics though so doing legs once a week is ample, I'm already having trouble fitting into some of my jeans which is also turning me off training them - I don't wear skinny jeans but it's starting to get that way since I've been training legs every week hahah!!

Until you start squatting heavy reguarly you don't realise that they really are a whole body exercise. I just finished a very squat intensive program and I saw growth in my traps that was insane, also had very sore abs after most workouts despite doing nil direct ab work.

Not saying your program is bad (considering your goals of size over strength) just don't underestimate how much carry over squatting can have to core and upper body growth.

Edit : for the record I think size and strength go hand in hand get strong and you will get big.
 
Not too worried about the legs department pal, i feel they're aesthetic enough ;) hehe

I think your all about strength freak - I'm going more for the beach bod if you will and so far this program is helping me achieve just that :)

Pretty sure I have really good genetics though so doing legs once a week is ample, I'm already having trouble fitting into some of my jeans which is also turning me off training them - I don't wear skinny jeans but it's starting to get that way since I've been training legs every week hahah!!

My weights have also improved a bit...
BP - 47.5 KG DB's or 100KG BB - 8 reps.
DL - 120KG (I feel as if i could go heavier although, I'm still trying to get that proper form dialled in)
Squats - 90KG

Cheers :)

I started off training BB style before coming to my senses. Training legs a lot is good for whole body size. With a stronger base you can swing more weight about up top.
 
I started off training BB style before coming to my senses. Training legs a lot is good for whole body size. With a stronger base you can swing more weight about up top.

This.

Anyone saying they have good leg genetics but is squatting less than 100 is talking shit and just making excuses for why they curl as much as they squat.

Get stronger and you will get bigger.
 
That's not always the case, stronger does not necessarily mean bigger

That's bullshit.

We are talking about an individual, if you want to get bigger you have to get stronger in some way wether it is more reps, sets, time under tension, ect. In some way you need to get stronger to get bigger. There is no way around it.

Show me someone who has got bigger by progressively getting weaker.

This does not mean the strongest guy in the gym is the biggest, that is a different topic but when talking about an individual they will have to get stronger in some way if they want to get bigger.
 
The bigger the cross-sectional size or area of the muscle the more ABILITY it has to exert force. Note ABILITY this does not necessarily mean the biggest guy is the strongest. Progressive overload in one way or another is the only way to continually add muscle mass. Ever heard the saying if nothing chanes, nothing changes?
 
BUILDING BIGGER ARMS WITH SQUATS
By Stuart McRobert

Adapted from his best-selling book BRAWN



To build muscle mass, you must increase strength. It's that simple. You will never get huge arms, a monstrous back, a thick chest, or massive legs without lifting heavy weights. I know that probably doesn't come as a revelation to anyone. But despite how obvious it seems, far too many people (and not just beginners) neglect power training and rarely make increasing the weights lifted in each successive workout a priority. You must get strong in the basic mass building exercises to bring about a significant increase in muscle size. One of the biggest mistakes typical bodybuilders make is when they implement specialisation routines before they have the right to use them.

It constantly amazes me just how many neophytes (beginners), near neophytes, and other insufficiently developed bodybuilders plunge into single-body part specialisation programs in the desperate attempt to build big arms. I don't fault them for wanting big arms, but their approach to getting them is flawed. For the typical bodybuilder who is miles away from squatting 1.5 times their bodyweight for 20 reps (if you weigh 180 lbs., that means 20 reps with 270 lbs.), an arm specialisation program is utterly inappropriate and useless.

The strength and development needed to squat well over 1.5 times bodyweight for 20 reps will build bigger arms faster then focusing on biceps and triceps training with isolation exercises. Even though squats are primarily a leg exercise, they stress and stimulate the entire body. But more importantly, if you are able to handle heavy weights in the squat, it logically follows that the rest of your body will undoubtedly be proportionally developed. It's a rare case that you would be able to squat 1.5 times your bodyweight and not have a substantial amount of upper body muscle mass.

This is not to say that you don't need to train arms, and squats alone will cause massive upper body growth. You will still work every body part, but you must focus on squats, deadlifts, and rows, the exercises that develop the legs, hips, and back. Once you master the power movements and are able to handle impressive poundages on those lifts, the strength and muscle you gain will translate into greater weights used in arm, shoulder and chest exercises.

In every gym I've ever visited or trained in, there were countless teenage boys blasting away on routines, dominated by arm exercises, in the attempt to build arms like their idols. In the 70s, they wanted arms like Arnold Schwarzenegger, in the 80s Robby Robinson was a favourite and currently Mr. Olympia, Ronnie Coleman, has set the standard everyone wants to achieve. Unfortunately the 3 aforementioned men as well as most other top bodybuilders have arm development far beyond the reach of the average (or even above average) weight trainer. But arm size can be increased. However, not in the way young trainers, with physiques that don't even have the faintest resemblance to those of bodybuilders are attempting to make progress. Thin arms, connected to narrow shoulders, fixed to shallow chest, joined to frail backs and skinny legs, don't need body part specialisation programs. Let's not have skewed priorities. Let's not try to put icing on the cake before the cake has been baked.



Priorities

Trying to stimulate a substantial increase in size in a single body part, without first having the main structures of the body in pretty impressive condition, is to have turned bodybuilding upside-down, inside-out and back to front.

The typical bodybuilder simply isn't going to get much meat on his arms, calves, shoulders, pectorals and neck unless he first builds a considerable amount of muscle around the thighs, hips and back. It simply isn't possible for the typical drug-free bodybuilder, that is to add much if any size to the small areas unless the big areas are already becoming substantial.

There's a knock-on (additive) effect from the efforts to add substantial size to the thigh, hip and back structure (closely followed by upper body pushing structure-pecs and delts). The smaller muscle groups, like the biceps, and triceps will progress in size (so long as you don't totally neglect them) pretty much in proportion to the increase in size of the big areas. It's not a case of getting big and strong thighs, hips, back and upper-body pushing structure with everything else staying put. Far from it. As the thigh, hip, back and upper-body pushing structure grows, so does everything else. Work hard on squats and deadlifts, in addition to bench presses, overhead presses and some type of row or pulldown. Then you can add a little isolation work, curls, calf raises and neck work (but not all of this at every workout).



The " Driver"

The key point is that the " engine" that drives the gains in the small areas is the progress being made in the big areas. If you take it easy on the thigh and back you will, generally speaking, have trouble making gains in the other exercises, no matter how hard you work the latter.

All this isn't to say just do squats, deadlifts and upper back work, quite closely followed by some upper-body pressing work. While such a limited program will deliver good gains on these few exercises, with some knock-on effect throughout the body, it's not a year after year program. Very abbreviated routines are great for getting gains moving, and for building a foundation for moderately expanded routines. They are fine to keep returning to on a regular basis. The other training isn't necessary all in the same workout but spread over the week. This will maintain balance throughout the body and capitalise upon the progress made in the thigh, hip and back structure.

Just remember that the thigh, hip and back structure comes first and is the " driver" (closely followed by the upper-body pushing structure) for the other exercises. These other exercises, though important in their own right, are passengers relative to the driving team.



Big Arms

To get big arms, get yourself on a basic program that focuses on the leg, hip and back structure without neglecting the arms themselves. As you improve your squatting ability, for reps and by say 100 pounds, your curling poundage should readily come up by 30 pounds or so if you work hard enough on your curls. This will add size to your biceps. While adding 100 pounds to your squat, you should be able to add 50-70 pounds to your bench press, for reps. This assumes you've put together a sound program and have worked hard on the bench. That will add size to your triceps.

If you're desperate to add a couple of inches to your upper arms you'll need to add 30 pounds or more over your body, unless your arms are way behind the rest of you. Don't start thinking about 17" arms, or even 16" arms so long as your bodyweight is 130, 140, 150, 160, or even 170 pounds. Few people can get big arms without having a big body. You're unlikely to be one of the exceptions.

15 sets of arm flexor exercises, and 15 sets of isolation tricep exercises with a few squats, deadlifts and bench presses thrown in as an afterthought will give you a great pump and attack the arms from " all angles" . However, it won't make your arms grow much, if at all, unless you're already squatting and benching big poundages, or are drug-assisted or genetically gifted.

As your main structures come along in size and strength (thigh, hip and back structure, and the pressing structure), the directly involved smaller body parts are brought along in size too. How can you bench press or dip impressive poundages without adding a lot of size to your triceps? How can you deadlift the house and row big weights without having the arm flexors not to mention the shoulders and upper back to go with those lifts? How can you squat close to 2 times bodyweight, for plenty of reps, without having a lot of muscle all over your body?

The greater the development and strength of the main muscular structures of the body, the greater the size and strength potential of the small areas of the body. Think it through. Suppose you can only squat and deadlift with 200 pounds, and your arms measure about 13" . You're unlikely to add any more than half an inch or so on them, no matter how much arm specialization you put in.

However, put some real effort into the squat and deadlift, together with the bench press and a few other major basic movements. Build up the poundages by 50% or more, to the point where you can squat 300 pounds for over 10 reps, and pack on 30 pounds of muscle. Then, unless you have an unusual arm structure, you should be able to get your arms to around 16" . If you want 17" arms, plan on having to squat more than a few reps with around 2 times bodyweight, and on adding many more pounds of muscle throughout your body (unless you have a better-than-average growth potential in your upper arms).

All of this arm development would have been achieved without a single concentration curl, without a single pushdown and without a single preacher curl. This lesson in priorities proves that the shortest distance between you and big arms is not a straight line to a curl bar.

STRENGTH, MASS, AND POWER WORKOUT

(3 days per week 1 on, 1 off)

Monday

LEGS: Squats

1x 16 reps, 1x 12 reps, 1 x 8 reps, 1x 6 reps, 1 x 5 reps, 1 x 4 reps, 1 x 10 reps

BACK: T-Bar Rows or Seated Rows

1 x 16 reps, 1 x 10 reps, 1 x 8 reps, 1 x 6 reps, 2 x 5 reps, 1 x 10 reps

CALVES: Standing Calf Raises

1 x 12 reps, 1 x 8 reps, 1 x 6 reps, 1 x 10 reps

Wednesday

CHEST: Bench Presses

1 x 12 reps, 1 x 10 reps, 1 x 6 reps, 1 x 5 reps, 1 x 4 reps, 1 x 8 reps

CHEST/TRICEPS: Parallel Bar Dips

1 x 12 reps, 1 x 10 reps, 1 x 8-10 reps

BICEPS: Barbell Curls

1 x 10 reps, 1 x 8 reps, 2 x 6 reps

ABDOMINALS: Reverse Crunches

2 x 20 reps

Friday

LEGS, HIPS, BACK: Deadlifts

1 x 12 reps, 1 x 8 reps, 1 x 6 reps, 1 x 5 reps, 3 x 3 reps, 1 x 8 reps

SHOULDERS: Military Presses or Behind The Neck Presses

1 x 10 reps, 1 x 8 reps, 2 x 6 reps, 1 x 8 reps

CALVES: Seated Calf Raises

1 x 12 reps, 2 x 8 reps, 1 x 10 reps

ABDOMINALS: Crunches

2 x 20 reps

After a light warm-up set for each body part, adjust the weights used so that you are struggling to achieve the desired number of reps. Don't sacrifice proper form for the sake of excessive weight, but the final rep of each set should be nearly impossible to complete. If you are able to breeze through each set, then the weights selected are too light and must be increased. When you get stronger while using proper form, you give your body no choice but to grow.
 
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