One Nation wins four Senate seats

[Bazza20]

Man believe in what you want, if you believe in man made climate change then go ahead. No skin off my nose.

Seriously I don't understand how any person can believe that rubbish with zero evidence to support it. Climate has changed well before we ever came along it has been changing for billions of years and will continue to do so for billions more.

Then there is the idiocy that somehow a carbon tax will change all that, yes of course we pay hundreds of million of $$ in carbon tax, of course climate will change due to the extra money in the governments coffers, makes perfect sense.

You don't seem to understand how a market works. Change business for the carbon they emit and that gives them incentive to reduce carbon emissions.

Business then pays the true cost of emitting carbon instead of being able to do it for free and having the rest of us tax payers footing the bill.

 

[Darkoz]

You don't seem to understand how a market works. Change business for the carbon they emit and that gives them incentive to reduce carbon emissions.

Business then pays the true cost of emitting carbon instead of being able to do it for free currently.

It sounds good in practice but more than likely the cost is eventually passed on to the consumer, I reckon it does very little if anything to reduce emissions but it is a good way for the government to earn extra tax money.

 

[Bazza20]

It sounds good in practice but more than likely the cost is eventually passed on to the consumer, I reckon it does very little if anything to reduce emissions but it is a good way for the government to earn extra tax money.

businesses are already doing things to reduce carbon emotions. Money is money. If they can make money on it they will do it.

You don't think business should pay the cost of emitting carbon rather than the tax payer foot the bill.

 

[Darkoz]

businesses are already doing things to reduce carbon emotions. Money is money. If they can make money on it they will do it.

You don't think business should pay the cost of emitting carbon rather than the tax payer foot the bill.

Ultimately we pay for it anyway

 

[Repacked]

carbon emotions.

 

[Fadi]

Straight from One Nation's Policy page: "No more building of mosques & Islamic schools until an inquiry is held into Islam, to determine whether it is a religion or totalitarian political ideology, undermining our democracy and way of life."

Yes and evidence would suggest that it is a totalitarian political ideology part of which is the religion

I see comprehensiveness in totalitarianism but not totalitarianism in comprehensiveness. Islam is a comprehensive way of life, of which "religion" is a component. There are many other components, some of which are social, whilst others may deal with the economics etc.

“Any term which has both true and false connotations must, when used, be clarified in light of its true connotation. It is said that most of the difference of opinion related to terms among the rational people is because of ambiguous terms; and that much of people's disputes in this regard is because of general terms that have different meanings, as some people understand one meaning that merits approval while others understand another meaning that merits disapproval.” Ibn Taymiyyah.

The claim that because Islam is a comprehensive religion organising all aspects of life that would mean that it is totalitarian in the modern sense of the term 'totalitarianism' indicating hegemony and dominationand tyranny is wrong and contrary to the truth. The fact that Islam is comprehensive does not mean that it is an authoritarian religion. There is broad room in Islam for ijtihaad (personal reasoning) with regards to novel events in people's lives. There are general principles organising the processof ijtihaad governed by the principle of the elimination of evil and the realisation of benefit.

What further exonerates Islam from authoritarianism, totalitarianism, and tyranny is the fact that shura (consultation) is a fundamental principle in the Islamic system of governance. Just as Islam set the fundamental rulings and provisions and left room for ijtihaad by scholars, it set general rules of governance and left the details to be decided based on consultation.

According to the free dictionary, totalitarianism is a form of government in which the state controls every aspect of the individual’s life and all opposition is suppressed. That is not the Islam I know and understand. I thank you for your time gentlemen.

Edit: some may find this interesting..http://www.unitedliberty.org/articles/why-the-islamic-religion-is-not-totalitarian

 

[Bazza20]

Autocorrect fucked me.

 

[WoodyAllen]

According to the free dictionary, totalitarianism is a form of government in which the state controls every aspect of the individual’s life and all opposition is suppressed. That is not the Islam I know and understand.

Well, I guess I have been totally fooled into thinking that Islam does not dictate every aspect of an individuals life. I was sure it did. Clothing, prayer (how often, how to be performed, etc), education, "morality", food, etc.

You can't just say that one nation (such as Saudi Arabia) or branch has got it all wrong and a more moderate view is "normal". The whole range of islam expression, from ISIS and Al Qaeda to some Aussie muslim wearing jeans and adopting western culture, is all part of the whole package.

Is One Nation an expression of Democracy? Yes, just not a particularly good one.

 

[Big Mick]

You don't seem to understand how a market works. Change business for the carbon they emit and that gives them incentive to reduce carbon emissions.

Business then pays the true cost of emitting carbon instead of being able to do it for free and having the rest of us tax payers footing the bill.

You don't seem to understand, the business does not absorb the cost, they pass it on to each and every person (us). There is no cost in emitting carbon, it is made up rubbish, the amount of carbon in the atmosphere does not change it only changes it's form, we burn timber/fuels etc carbon is released, this carbon once released is then in turn absorbed by plants etc. This has been going on for ever and will continue to do so.

We as humans have a minimal affect on this, carbon is not a pollutant by any stretch of the imagination as the Greens would have us believe, carbon is essential for all life on earth.

 

[Big Mick]

That doesn't go to the experts doing the climate research. The funding to climate scientists keeps getting cut of late.

Big businesses that would benefit from climate change denial would dwarf that figure. There is more money in it to deny climate change. That's already happened.

Stop saying there is zero evidence to support man made climate change. 97% of 4000 research supports it.

That is a made up skewed figure and most of those 4000 were not even scientists and the rest were paid by the global warming society or who ever gets the money to propagate this rubbish, use your trusty Google and look it up. Once you actually look into it you will see that there is no evidence.

Then you confuse yourself we are not talking about climate change in general, NO ONE, not one single person I know disputes climate change, it has been happening for millions of years, but there is no evidence of MAN MADE climate change.

But like I said believe what you like, makes no difference to me.

 

[steveP]

Reading laps of this climate change debate is brain numbing.

If you don't think humans contribute to climate change, you're either ignorant or stubborn. Plenty of undeniable research out there by people smarter than us.

However naturally occurring climate change is also a thing. Yes, they can both exist. And naturally occurring climate change is the big worry. All the recycling and carbon tax won't mean shit if a significant volcano blows or a comet hits earth. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be a responsible species and clean up after ourselves.

 

[Big Mick]

Reading laps of this climate change debate is brain numbing.

If you don't think humans contribute to climate change, you're either ignorant or stubborn. Plenty of undeniable research out there by people smarter than us.

Can you point me towards some?? It is a theory at best, a vague theory based on the last 30 or 40 years of data taken and analysed in isolation and out of context. Whilst some of it is down right deceiving and just made up.

It's like saying today is hotter than yesterday so there is your proof, but ignoring the fact that we are going towards spring and the weather is starting to warm as part of it's yearly and perfectly natural cycle.

you're either ignorant or stubborn

I would say anyone that believes this rubbish would be ignorant or stubborn and probably has spend zero time looking into the evidence or lack there of.

However naturally occurring climate change is also a thing. Yes, they can both exist. And naturally occurring climate change is the big worry. All the recycling and carbon tax won't mean shit if a significant volcano blows or a comet hits earth. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be a responsible species and clean up after ourselves.

What are you referring to when you say clean up??

No one suggested we should not be recycling and looking after stuff, but putting a tax on a naturally occurring and beneficial substance makes no sense what so ever.

 

[steveP]

I'm not going to debate researching evidence. You may as well say the earth is flat and I need to prove it's round. It's undeniable and it sounds like you need to do the research.

I agree that the carbon tax is mostly policy for the sake of policy, especially when the rest of the world (china) puts out 95% more pollution than us. However steps need to be made to incentivise business into be polluting less.

 

[Big Mick]

I'm not going to debate researching evidence. You may as well say the earth is flat and I need to prove it's round. It's undeniable and it sounds like you need to do the research.

LMAO man your ignorance makes me laugh, undeniable?? Undeniable like drinking excess BCAA"s does anything for your body apart from putting extra strain on your kidneys

You believe anything that they tell you.

How is it undeniable when the only people (scientists) that agree that it exists are getting paid by the climate change committee. It's a bit like going into a supplement shop and asking the owner if having that $80 tub of extra BCAA's to piss down the toilet will give you the edge in your training, yes of course it will.....now give me all your money.

Walk into a Holden dealer and ask the salesman weather you should buy the latest Holden or Ford, you will never get an unbiased answer.

The scientists are not going to bite the hand that puts food into their families mouth and pays their mortgage, they will skew the statistics all they can to keep riding the wave for as long as they can.

 

[Big Mick]

Puts things into perspective of how big our affect on the planet and environment really is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BC1l4geSTP8

 

[Goosey]

Look, the warming or cooling is going to happen whether we are here or not, it's nice that our leaders are trying to slow it down for us.

what I think is the issue?

There are way too many of us, 20% of which are mad, crazy working against us, we are killing of species and plant life.
Short of a huge asteroid hitting us someone has got to come up with a plan pretty quick.

 

[Goosey]

Winter is coming

 

[Big Mick]

Look, the warming or cooling is going to happen whether we are here or not, it's nice that our leaders are trying to slow it down for us.

what I think is the issue?

There are way too many of us, 20% of which are mad, crazy working against us, we are killing of species and plant life.
Short of a huge asteroid hitting us someone has got to come up with a plan pretty quick.

I think people need to stop being pussies. Me driving to the shops is not going to kill the planet, and if it does well bad luck really.

Nature and life will find a way, the world is changing, always has always will, we are here for a mere flash, and we will be gone and the place will carry on for millions more years.

Species became extinct well before humans ever took their first step, just ask the dinosaurs.

Whole species of humans have become extinct millions of years before anyone considered global warming, either way our impact is so small and negligible that there is no way in this universe that we will affect climate or this planet and stop nature doing what nature is going to do unless we blow the whole place up, if that happens well who cares anyway.

 

[steveP]

How is it undeniable when the only people (scientists) that agree that it exists are getting paid by the climate change committee. It's a bit like going into a supplement shop and asking the owner if having that $80 tub of extra BCAA's to piss down the toilet will give you the edge in your training, yes of course it will.....now give me all your money.

You just described what the climate change deniers do. They have a vested interest in us using energy/burning coal/oil. The scientists doing you know, real science, are government funded.

Oh and you forgot your spiel about "glossy labels". One of your favourites to go off track.

 

[Stiffy]

BCAAs now. Chit just got real!