Novice strength program

[PTC]

Do you want me to quote what you said?

Just because your weak,, dont hate.

Oli, Joel from Powersports made an observation when he watched Max deadlift in Albury. He feels his lockout and bar speed is a direct result from his powercleans. Personally I dont know if there is a correlation, but his lockout is insanely strong, he rack pulled 300kg this week.

I wouldnt dismiss the powerclean altogether for powerlifting, but if you want to be good at the powerlifts, do the powerlifts.

The row and clean are both excellent exercises.

 

[Ben]

Geez Oli I thought you loved Rippetoe... What changed?

 

[Oli]

Oli, Joel from Powersports made an observation when he watched Max deadlift in Albury. He feels his lockout and bar speed is a direct result from his powercleans. Personally I dont know if there is a correlation, but his lockout is insanely strong, he rack pulled 300kg this week.

I wouldnt dismiss the powerclean altogether for powerlifting, but if you want to be good at the powerlifts, do the powerlifts.

The row and clean are both excellent exercises.

I'm not into the whole 'bar speed' idea. I posted a video a little while ago on eric talmant's work on speed work and it basically doesnt exist.

YouTube - Tendo Unit with Speed Work and Force Production

Force production didnt change depending on a lower 'speed' percentage, and it was suggested results would be even worse if the lifters were raw.

It might work for the upper part of the lift (though load and TUT is less so i'd argue it wouldnt contribute as much as a bent row), but then again someone with a 140kg powerclean is going to be strong at anything.

Really this is just semantics but as most people dont have access to the stuff I wouldnt say you 'have to' clean for a big row.

Geez Oli I thought you loved Rippetoe... What changed?

Don't get me wrong, some of his stuff is great - practical programming could be the best book ive ever seen on exercise technique and general info and I'd recommend anyone buy it (or download it free).

But like a lot of coaches he's incredibly narrow minded - most guys can't handle 5x5 'forever' like rippetoe seems to think, his dieting advice is appalling (check out zach here) and from what ive seen of his posts he's a bit of an ass.

I really like PTC's stuff (cept the high bar squats) - his programming advice WORKS for average people (those of us who are genetically average, dont take gear or wear it and have lives outside the gym). Not only that but his stuff has an australian voice - useful in a country which doesnt even know what a power rack is.

 

[RhysG]

Well I just did my first day of the PTC Beginner Program and I must say that it was freakin' great . Sweating all over by the end of it my legs! lol they don't know what him them. That was a good workout.

I used a training weight of 30KG+Bar for all the big lifts, bench and squat; and 15KG for the curl and press. The form for most of my lifts was good but I will post up videos when I can to get some comments (only iffy on the Bent Row and SLDL but that's cos I've never done them before).

Squat: 1x9,2x10; Bench: 2x8,1x6; Bent Row: 10,9,8; Military Press: 1x7+1x4 @ 20KG+Bar,1x7 15KG+Bar; SLDL: 3x8; BB Curl: 3x8

Progression (in KG) for Tuesday: Squat: 0; Bench: 5; Bent Row: 10; Military Press: 0; SLDL: 10; BB Curl: 2.5

When adding progressive weight, should I add it every week or every session? I felt like I was probably near my limit today on the squat and the military press (had to lower it from 20 to 15). The additional weight for the row and SLDL are estimates of how much more I though I could add to the bar as 30KG training weight was too easy (may be able to add more but don't want to make a silly mistake like that).

Got up a bit late this morning, had a few glasses of water then go to it.

Pre workout drink = 40g oats, 15g WPI, 400ml water

Workout.

Post workout = 20g WPI, 200ml water
Breakfast = 50g oats (porridge), handful Goji berries

I need to get together a planned diet that will help me make the most of training, read the PTC newsletter but wanted to know specifics meals/daily plan etc.

Well, I look forward to increasing the weight and making progress on this program .

Cheers,
Rhys

 

[trofius]

I dont get the argument here..

It is all about power...

Technique, and muscle utilization / colaboration is a small part of how you produce that power.

Power is just weight moved, over a distance in a certain time.

if you move the same weight as someone else quicker,....you are stronger.

if a 7 foot monster dead lifts 200kg a meter and a half off the ground, he is stronger than a 4 foot nugget that deadlifts 200kg 60cm! in a similar time.

focusing on speed is easier to increase than increasing the weight, same as focusing on increasing reps can be easier than increasing weights.

Either ways you implement your training as long as you are going faster, heavier, or doing more reps, you are getting stronger.

If you can focus on speed however you also start to enjoy a little boost from inertia, which will help you push though sticking points.

 

[dave]

Trofius your last paragraph was what people against speed work use to say it is not needed. Since you are usin inertia your muscles are in fact not needing to produce as much force at that point of time in the movemet so therefore they are working less than they could.

Basically for a comp lift having a higher rate of force development would be good if you had a poor lockout in the deadlift but in training you would want to work on both to maximize your potential max lift. Hence chains and bands.
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[RhysG]

Hi all, I wanted to share my stats for week 1 and 2 of the program and get some advice if you can help out that would be greatly appreciated. Currently I'm in pretty good health but had a shit experience last week with a nasty cold. As you can see I'm not gonna win any awards for heavy lifts but I have to start somewhere! Main problems so far is form on the SLDL at heavier weight. Also I sometimes overestimate the weight I can do on MP and BBC which you can see in W2, D3 as no set 3 on either .

I think I will switch to a normal deadlift (have done them before and confident of form). Did SLDL for W2, D3, Set 1 but swapped to normal DL for set 2 and 3. Also, after week 1 had pretty noticable DOMS but week 2 not so much. I'm still working to near failure (don't like to go to absolute failure) and I'm increasing weight as I progress so IDK why no DOMS - is that normal?

Thanks for the help .


Click to view full size!

 

[dave]

DOMS occurs due to your muscles not being used to the effort, you are lifting constantly heavy now so no DOMS, introduce a different exercise in for a day and hit it hard if you want to feel DOMS again, personally I am glad its not there.

Find a weight you can do and then stick to that weight, stop changing it around like you have. Up it every week by 2.5kg or if you can not get the reps (last on or two) by the last set then get the reps and then up the weight. I would say use the last two weeks as getting the feel of it and start again with the weights you know you can do and be consistent with them. You should know what you can get for 10 reps in the squat now for 3 sets, do it and stick to it for the week then up it by 2.5 next week and keep doing that.

 

[RhysG]

Okay, thanks mate. I was a little confused about what the weight progression was supposed to be like on this program but you've cleared that up. Should you do the same weight per set or increase it as I have been doing until you get to the maximum weight you can do for that exercise at X reps? Hehe, I don't want DOMS either I was just thinking that given I didn't get any that maybe I wasn't working hard enough.

Cheers,
Rhys

EDIT: PS. Really enjoying this workout, gets me buggered every time

 

[dave]

Go reread Markos original explanation. But I would say lift the same each set, leave a rep or two in the tank and each week go up 2.5kg (even 5kg if possible) do this till you can't progress this way anymore. You should be pretty strong by then.
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[PTC]

That chart is a dogs breakfast, are the weights really going backwards from day one

regressive training reintroduced

forget your pretty charts and go lift

 

[RhysG]

That chart is a dogs breakfast, are the weights really going backwards from day one

regressive training reintroduced

forget your pretty charts and go lift

No, theyre not. The weight progression either went down when I was feeling shit due to the cold or the maximum stayed the same or increased. If you look at the progression that I WAS doing: it was increasing with each set to a maximum that either went down AFTER day 1 because I couldn't get 8 reps out of it since then or was sick, but since then has increased to either match day 1 or exceed it. What's a dogs breakfast about the chart other than that? If I understand it then that's all I care about, helps me to see my own progress for the future.

 

[PTC]

6 sessions after your first, you still havent matched your original output in the squat

36kg x 9
36kg x 10
36kg x 10


six sessions later

26kg x 10
31kg x 10
36kg x 10

Thats called regressive resistance training

Same story with the bench press

 

[Paullie]

RhysG, I appreciate you all enthusiastic with charts and the like, thats great. But Im going to tell you something Markos told me when I was first starting out. 40kg does not constitute a squat .. ever .. go back to the gym, load up 70kg and pump out 5 x 10.

I did, and have never looked back .. now go do it

 

[Kyle Aaron]

A journal is good, Rhys. Charts not so much. Sometimes we can get caught up in the details a bit, whether it's weights and sets and reps, or calories and grams of protein and so on. We worry about doing the wrong thing, and think that if we plan it all on a neat spreadsheet it'll go brilliantly.

Unfortunately, the human body is not a machine which reacts in these sorts of easily predictable and exact ways. We just end up doing our head in with all the numbers.

So you just have to go lift. There's a mantra of Markos' that he didn't invent, so I'm happy to steal it from him, I always repeat it to clients and anyone I give advice to: always do more. In every workout, more than you did last time - more weight, or more reps, or more sets.

Your body changes because it encounters a stress it could only just handle. You provide that stress in the form of weight training. So you stress your body, it adapts, it can handle more stress. If you want it to keep changing, you have to stress it again. It won't be stressed by doing the same thing again, you have to up the stakes. Do more. More weight, more reps or more sets.

One of my clients said the other day, "I thought this would get easier." If we did the first workout he ever did, well it'd be easy. But that would be pointless. The body would not be stressed, so it wouldn't adapt. If you're not stressing the body, why do the workout? All you're doing is lifting up iron and putting it down again a zillion times, what's the sense in that? Weightlifting is inherently a stupid and pointless thing. It's only useful if it's stressing your body. Which means...

Do more.

If you're sick, miss the workout. Your body has enough resources to adapt to stress, or to get better, not both.

 

[dave]

I think that was just his pretty log, not a chart of what he will lift. Rhys just go back to the basics I think you have confused yourself by complicating a simple plan. Also listen to Paulie, I am very sure you have more than 40kg in you. Also I just posted a Dan John video that teaches a lot about squatting, watch it and fix up your technique.

 

[RhysG]

6 sessions after your first, you still havent matched your original output in the squat

36kg x 9
36kg x 10
36kg x 10


six sessions later

26kg x 10
31kg x 10
36kg x 10

Thats called regressive resistance training

Same story with the bench press

Ah OK I understand now. I was thinking only in terms of maximum weight lifted at one time when I should be thinking total weight over all sets for a particular exercise. Thanks for clearing that up Markos.
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[RhysG]

Thanks for all the replies people, I appreciate the advice. Yep dave, that is just my log not a plan for future lifts. Will report back how I go after the next few weeks. Gotta get me a squat rack!

Cheers,
Rhys
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[PowerBuilder]

like Kyle said, always do more