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NOOB Question StrongLifts and StartingStrength

ScottyB

ScottyB

New member
Hi all.

I apologise if this has been covered to death previously somewhere.

I have never lifted weights but want to do a strength training program.
I read through the SL guide and was all set to start with this program, then I read all the haters posts across a range of sites - apparently SS is a better way to go for a noob.

Suggestions for the best option for someone who has no experience at all prior to starting the program? I am overweight looking to build more lean muscle and reduce fat. I have natural strength, but no clue and don't want to do a back injury due to poor form.

Why I like SL? Starts with an empty bar - forcing you to work on form.
I can not do one single chin or pull up at present (part of the SS program).

Cheers in advance if you can push me in the right direction.
 
They are similar, but there are main differences such as:

SS - you find your lifting weights pretty much upfront, it has slightly different exercises and progressive reps, unlike StrongLifts.

I have natural strength and figure with good form, I will get right into lifting heavy weights, just an absolute noob. SS features Chin Ups/Pull Ups and at my current point - I can't even do one of either.
 
Dude..

Long story short..

SS is better if you dont use power clean template...

SL is a ok



The difference relates to. SL is a flog bag .. wheras RIP has credibility!!!
 
SS is a decent beginner's program backed by a book written by a very experienced beginner's coach.

SL is almost the same thing, taken by a marketer and made a little more accessible for the noob.

Both use the same method to get a beginner stronger, but most people starting out get too bogged down in the specifics of sets and reps, exercise selection, and fad dieting. They're less interested in ensuring their body is capable of perfect technique, and don't realise that strength and size come from years of hard work at non-retarded things.

One problem with both programs is they are big advocates of the low bar squat, as performed to satisfy the specific rules of powerlifting competition, and used nowhere else. SS is very serious about this, and it's why you see teenagers all over the internet doing horrendously bad lowbar squats with barely any knowledge of powerlifting. Rippetoe goes into such detail on this style of squatting that it's very easy just to do this style of squat and follow instructions, than it is to do what may be a more useful and natural style of squat, for which there is less info available on performing. The lowbar squat has pretty basic demands on mobility, letting lifters do it for a couple of years before they stall out on getting stronger and start getting injured. It can be a squat that hides issues most begginers have, namely rubbish hips and ankles. And with no coaches' watchful eye on their lifting from the start, the beginner has no idea he has these issues, or even that they could exist.

Another issue is that these begginer's linear programs pressure the lifter into adding weight each workout. There can be a sort of fear that if you're not squatting 140kg in your second week then you're pathetic and useless and should deload to the bar because you're such a pussy. This is one reason you get people doing absolutely horrible lifts far beyond their capabilites. There is NO RUSH with lifting.

For the OP's comon goal of losing some fat and gaining some muscle, basic barbell lifting is a fantastic thing to do. Calorie control and sensible lifting is all it takes, but it can be easy to get swept up in this program or that progam, this fitness guru or that internet coach. Keep some common sense about you and value perfection in lifting.
 
Also Power cleans are too technical for gym rats training un supervised imo...

SL uses bent over row... Better option for newbs me thinks...
 
Cheers for the replies guys.

From your responses, I believe it would be fair to say the SL program is a good step into the right direction. I also believe that the program itself is not set in stone and if I want to up the volume (particularly when the weights are minimal), then go for it.

Working out by myself, starting with such low weights will help me to get form over strength sorted upfront, especially if there's 5 x 5 reps at least twice a week for each exercise.

I will be going in for my first session tomorrow. I plan to keep a bit of a workout diary and am going to load up with a heap of "before" pics and statistics as motivation.

Cheers.
 
ScottyB said:
Cheers for the replies guys.

From your responses, I believe it would be fair to say the SL program is a good step into the right direction. I also believe that the program itself is not set in stone and if I want to up the volume (particularly when the weights are minimal), then go for it.

Working out by myself, starting with such low weights will help me to get form over strength sorted upfront, especially if there's 5 x 5 reps at least twice a week for each exercise.

I will be going in for my first session tomorrow. I plan to keep a bit of a workout diary and am going to load up with a heap of "before" pics and statistics as motivation.

Cheers.
Click to expand...

Depending on your genetic make up...

SL with a slight calorie deficit will deliver asthetic results and leanness..

SL with maintenance calories wil improve strength gains and potentially lean you out too...

4 litres of milk a day will make you a fat Kunce....



If you want more volume... Try the PTC begginer program...
 
I have been doing almost as much reading on food intake of late.
It's a further challenge to get that side right (more important).

I will be drinking water, eating up to 6 times a day, lean and healthy good food.
I have "myfitnesspal" but wasn't sure if counting calories was really required...

Will definitely make use of it to ensure that I am getting the food intake right.
 
ScottyB said:
I have been doing almost as much reading on food intake of late.
It's a further challenge to get that side right (more important).

I will be drinking water, eating up to 6 times a day, lean and healthy good food.
I have "myfitnesspal" but wasn't sure if counting calories was really required...

Will definitely make use of it to ensure that I am getting the food intake right.
Click to expand...



Diet sounds shocking???? Where is the icream and kebabs!!!


You don't have to count calories...

You don't have to eat six meals a day...

You don't have to eat lean??? What is lean and healthy food anyway???


However you do need to know how much you have eaten if you want to fine tune your diet for weight gain or loss... Therefore if this is you.... You will need to count calories...

And you do need to control your macro intake...

And you can eat as many meals as you want each day... Whether it is one or ten...

I prefer two to three meals a day... Everyone is different...
 
130kg at 183cm tall 1st June this year.

currently - 119.3kg. I have previously had an absolutely appalling diet.
KFC, Chips/Potato Cakes/Egg & Bacon Rolls...No breakfast ever, drank no water ever, heavy smoker, high amounts of coffee daily....

So yeah - I need to learn how to eat correctly ;)

The eating 6 times daily (in the SL program) is actually a blessing for me - I became a non smoker two weeks ago and in these last two weeks, put on 4kg because I turned to food. Fast food!. I will eat, but I want to eat right and drink before each meal to (A) ensure I am getting hydrated, (B) eat only what will fill me at the time.
 
Far as this sort of linear 3x5/5x5 thign goes, I like Greyskull LP more than those two. It's a template, the idea being you add in whatever lifts you like/need. Can't go wrong with rows, chins, possibly dips, a small amount of direct arm work, and (optional) abs. If any of that's too difficult atm, you can replace chins with V-bar lat pulldowns (that's the preferred one according to GSLP), and I dunno, maybe just not bother with dips.

You get to rep out, which is cool, adn gives you "Rep PRs" as an alternative to the neverending weight PRs (which you'll still be getting, a lot of the time). In combination with the smaller weight increments from session to session, and the fact that you drop weight a bit to reset when needed, this means Rep PRs keep on coming big time, even much later on.
 
As it evolves, I have no doubt that I will branch out from SL 5x5.

I did my very first workout this morning and for someone who has never lifted, I was happy to have an empty bar on the Squat and Bench Press. Practice Practice Practice. I had 20kg on the bar for the Barbell Row and enjoyed that one the most.
 
Good Luck with it all...


Just stick to the program now as it is and don't mess around with it...


Learn to do the basic lifts well and you will reap the benefits...
 
All the guys who love SS but hate SL are butthurt. At best you could argue that SS is slightly better than SL in a certain context. I actually think that SL is a better program for an absolute beginner without a coach*, because less weight and more volume means potentially more technique practice before the weights actually become a challenge -- you want to perform as many good repetitions as possible and as few bad repetitions as possible before you get to the point where the weight tempts you to deviate from decent technique, and then you want to practice resisting the temptation to break form. The lower starting weights, slower rate of progression and higher number of sets facilitates this. On SS, you might squat 100kg for the first time after 6 weeks; on SL it will take you 12 weeks; in the context of your whole training life, that's really an insignificant difference, yet if one option makes you a more reliable squatter than the other, that option will probably serve you better in the long term.

* One of the key things with SS is that it has been developed by a coach who actually coaches people, based on his experience coaching people face to face. If you've got an expert guiding you every step of the way, giving you feedback on every rep, then it's safer to start at higher weights, perform less volume and make larger jumps in weight. The context of SL, on the other hand is: "Hi guys, I'm French and will never meet you and don't intend on it. I'm not working with you personally unless you pay me, and even then I'm not working with you face to face, therefore we're going to bump up the precautions since I'm not there to control the situation." I honestly think SS works best when you have Rip molesting you the whole way through; SL is designed to accommodate the expectation that there's no-one there holding your hand.

I don't think either program is very well balanced. I think SL is more balanced in the upper body than SS, and I think SS is more balanced in the lower body than SL.

The push away from assistance work may be good for adherence, and sticking to something that implements progressive overload will make you stronger over time, but in my experience there's seldom a time in which no assistance work is better than some form of assistance work. In saying that, that's really something you need a coach for, as the best assistance work for me is not the best assistance work for you, and as a total noob you wouldn't have the knowledge or experience to make that kind of judgement.
 
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