Goosey
.
I see.
-
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lol @ Mehdi not being bigger because he doesn't take steroids
I see.
0ni
Registered Rustler
There are interviews with these guys where they dictate their training
The Reg Park training was a direct quote from Reg Park. All these people seemed to like to prescribe 5x5 but didn't do it themselves. Or if they did 5x5, they did it on one exercise or for a block in their training.
They did not do Starting Strength, MadCows or any of this other shit you see people jacking off to online these days. Here is a Dr. Ken regime:
1) Full Squats - 15-20 reps 2) Pullovers - 10 reps 3) Standing Presses - 10 reps 4) Chins - 10 reps 5) Dips - 12 reps 6) Barbell Curls - 10 reps 7) Shrugs - 15 reps 8) Stiff-Legged Deadlifts - 15 reps
"How many sets of each exercise? One. Two. Certainly never more than three, and if you are working properly, one set of most of these exercises should be more than enough for anyone. Why are these exercises chosen as opposed to some others? Very frankly, personal preference".
You can see why Gooby likes him! Very difficult training but this is just not 5x5.
"We did 20 rep squats 2x per week most of high school, sometimes 30s, sometimes 15s. Both days were hard and as heavy as possible. Preseason we cut back a bit to one hard day, one moderate, usually doing 30s on that day due to all the running we did (I usually ran with him). At Navy, training down there, he stuck to 15s and 20s. Here in the house, and for a year and a half, he managed to drive in on Friday about 4pm, slept for a few hours, and we would train when I got done with patients about 9pm, we would squat 15-20 or leg press (Nautilus Leverage or Hammer) and at times, both, with
stifflegged DL x15. No rest between squats and SLD.
We would hang out on Sat and train early Sunday before he had to leave, no squats or leg press or dl. On Tues, in Philly, he would squat x20-30, one set, no dl of any type. We just added weight constantly.
Last night, coincidentally, someone brought up Kevin's work on the USS Independence. He would lift in the hold which was perhaps 10x10'. He had his squat rack, bar, and bench, nothing else. He would squat, let the ship loll to the right, squat when the ship righted itself, wait as the ship lolled to the left, squatted when it righted itself, etc, doing sets of 20.
There was never a big push, just constant progression over twelve years or so until he could do 600x30. Anything over 500-550 hurt his knees a lot so we usually kept it there and wouldpre exhaust with leg press or at times, squat 500x20, no rest to leg press all out x20, back to squat with no rest and the 500 then for 15-20-30 or whatever he would get would be a true all out set. That was the safest way for us to do it.
Re: diet, he ate and used milk and egg protein powder in whole milk. The tuna story is good and I'll sign off with it: for the last three years of high school, I would make 8 (eight) tuna sandwiches for Kevin with the rule: "don't give any away, don't throw any out, don't bring any home". Thus, he would sit in class, walk the halls of Malverne HS, and eat constantly. It helped him gain weight and added protein to his diet. To this day he doesn't eat tuna fish! Nothing exotic, just basic stuff. I hope this is helpful to you.
Oh yeah, Trigg and Steve Baldwin saw quite a few slides of Kevin at the seminar I participated in this summer and they could comment if they cared to, on the progression in his size. He didn't start out huge, you could see him grow steadily as he became stronger, as expected.
Dr. Ken"
The Reg Park training was a direct quote from Reg Park. All these people seemed to like to prescribe 5x5 but didn't do it themselves. Or if they did 5x5, they did it on one exercise or for a block in their training.
They did not do Starting Strength, MadCows or any of this other shit you see people jacking off to online these days. Here is a Dr. Ken regime:
1) Full Squats - 15-20 reps 2) Pullovers - 10 reps 3) Standing Presses - 10 reps 4) Chins - 10 reps 5) Dips - 12 reps 6) Barbell Curls - 10 reps 7) Shrugs - 15 reps 8) Stiff-Legged Deadlifts - 15 reps
"How many sets of each exercise? One. Two. Certainly never more than three, and if you are working properly, one set of most of these exercises should be more than enough for anyone. Why are these exercises chosen as opposed to some others? Very frankly, personal preference".
You can see why Gooby likes him! Very difficult training but this is just not 5x5.
"We did 20 rep squats 2x per week most of high school, sometimes 30s, sometimes 15s. Both days were hard and as heavy as possible. Preseason we cut back a bit to one hard day, one moderate, usually doing 30s on that day due to all the running we did (I usually ran with him). At Navy, training down there, he stuck to 15s and 20s. Here in the house, and for a year and a half, he managed to drive in on Friday about 4pm, slept for a few hours, and we would train when I got done with patients about 9pm, we would squat 15-20 or leg press (Nautilus Leverage or Hammer) and at times, both, with
stifflegged DL x15. No rest between squats and SLD.
We would hang out on Sat and train early Sunday before he had to leave, no squats or leg press or dl. On Tues, in Philly, he would squat x20-30, one set, no dl of any type. We just added weight constantly.
Last night, coincidentally, someone brought up Kevin's work on the USS Independence. He would lift in the hold which was perhaps 10x10'. He had his squat rack, bar, and bench, nothing else. He would squat, let the ship loll to the right, squat when the ship righted itself, wait as the ship lolled to the left, squatted when it righted itself, etc, doing sets of 20.
There was never a big push, just constant progression over twelve years or so until he could do 600x30. Anything over 500-550 hurt his knees a lot so we usually kept it there and wouldpre exhaust with leg press or at times, squat 500x20, no rest to leg press all out x20, back to squat with no rest and the 500 then for 15-20-30 or whatever he would get would be a true all out set. That was the safest way for us to do it.
Re: diet, he ate and used milk and egg protein powder in whole milk. The tuna story is good and I'll sign off with it: for the last three years of high school, I would make 8 (eight) tuna sandwiches for Kevin with the rule: "don't give any away, don't throw any out, don't bring any home". Thus, he would sit in class, walk the halls of Malverne HS, and eat constantly. It helped him gain weight and added protein to his diet. To this day he doesn't eat tuna fish! Nothing exotic, just basic stuff. I hope this is helpful to you.
Oh yeah, Trigg and Steve Baldwin saw quite a few slides of Kevin at the seminar I participated in this summer and they could comment if they cared to, on the progression in his size. He didn't start out huge, you could see him grow steadily as he became stronger, as expected.
Dr. Ken"
Goosey
.
I love that story, Jay Trigg and Baldwin are fantastic blokes, where did you see this ONI
Dr ken would use the 5x5 followed by a back-off set of 20.
Dr ken trained hard, using many methods over many years to this day.
Bill Starr was basically the originator of 5x5, there is nothing magical about 5x5 it's easy to count.
0ni
Registered Rustler
I have a massive information repository on my laptop. Maybe when I'm in Melbin I'll show you! Unfortunately I didn't record where I got most of this stuff from. A bit of googling shows this has been posted on t-nation so my best bet is I saw it on there and copied it all
My main take home point was that I've never seen anyone that did Starting Strength, or "5x5 - the routine" that actually got strong. Glenn Pendlay listed a few weightlifters that used the Texas Method to get their squat up before focusing on the competition lifts but this method of loading was stopped when the weight used on the squats was a fair way above their max clean and jerk (180-210kg squats)
SS stands for Starting Strength. Its for beginners.
I do like Rips to the point way of speaking.
Platform : The Iron Plate Problem - YouTube
nazzysmith
kuncesmith
nazzysmith
kuncesmith
Agree on the need for back work... Perhaps rows on first day and chins on second...
I dislike the idea of 3x5 deads as this will undermine your squats...
1x5 gives just enough for a newb with out adversely impacting squats ...
Once a newb peaked on SS 3x5 I would go back to the PTC beginner program for 3 months Nd then repeat SS again...
From here the OP would then know enough on what to do next...5/3/1 smolov bb pl cube sheiko etc etc....
wingman
Super M0derator
RyanF
Member
I've done SS -- not just tried it out for a couple weeks but done the program to the point of multiple resets. I did the program and discovered that for all its internet hype, there's nothing magical about it. I took all the advice available on how to continue progressing on the program (most of which, beyond technique and microloading was "just eat more," which took me all the way from skinny to skinny-fat). I worked the program into the ground.
But that's not the point. My complaint is that the program is unbalanced, and unbalanced programs are by default not very good (unless they are strategically unablanced to correct an existing imbalance). There are a lot of good principles in SS, but good principles that are applied in such a way as to ask for shoulder and elbow issues (due to being push-dominant) do not a good program make. As Einstein put it, everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler. SS crosses that threshold by not balancing pushing with pulling, which is something I would expect from a 16yo boy, not a fitness professional. My issue with SS as a program is not that it won't make you stronger, it's that it omits exercises (rows, pull ups) that need to be strengthened, too.
0ni
Registered Rustler
I hear this a lot. I always wonder the same thing. "Why not start things the right way?". A novice can handle loads more than 15 sets a week. They can handle 15 sets a session and do that 6 days a week easy. Every time you train, you're reinforcing those motor patterns
Generally speaking here, aimed at no-one in particular although I assume people can relate to it...
One set of deadlifts a week?
One fucking set?
Really?
One set?
Just think about that for a while. What will get YOU good at deadlifts. Is it one set of deadlifts a week? No doubt someone will link some guy that deadlifts once a week, gets great results... Are you this guy? Is your deadlift now up to 350kg from deadlifting once a week? No? Then why are you fucking doing it? Are you hoping that someday after months of building up and "deloading" you'll get that 350kg.
It's not happening. If you want it bad enough then you'll do everything in your power to make it happen. A set of deadlifts once a week is not enough to make this happen. Seriously, what the fuck are you doing? January last year I sucked. I made a decision that I'd change this, what was working for other people did not work for me and it didn't work for loads of other people as well. Sure, it got people to their epic forum tier 180kg squat!! Big fucking deal. I did everything I thought was in my power to advance in the sport. It got me to a 470kg total and starting to look pretty great. I placed 6th which is average but there is still Kristos in my weight class who will open at 220kg on the squat in nationals aged 18 and is a freak who pulled 180kg the first time he walked into the gym. There is Yianni who just deadlifted 227.5kg and has a whole team of experienced powerlifters, coaches and masseurs at his disposal. Then there is Christenson or w/e his name is who is exactly the same again with a 500+ total as a Junior.
I have none of the things that they have, I need to make it happen. Do I need to focus on a set of deadlifts once a week? Or should I be training as hard as I fucking can, going for regular massages that I can mooch off the football team, spending my free time meditating, analysing my videos, discussing my training with stronger people, making my meals for the week. What do I do with my extra time that I don't have? Should I get another hours sleep or use it for conditioning? Which of these things could I do in that hour that benefit my training the most?
A set of deadlifts a week? Doing 3x5 affecting my squat progression? Give me a break. 5x5 was good for football players. They needed to fit it around playing football and they did football training even in the offseason because like me, they wanted to advance in their sport and did everything they could even in the offseason. Are you trying to juggle this around football? So why are you doing a regime designed around a fucking sport?
nazzysmith
kuncesmith
And look at where u are today Ryan... Your knowledge is so much greater...
SS is just a stepping stone.... You don't learn this stuff if you don't spend time in the trenches doing the basics...
Look at Sheiko....Everyone adds back work cause of the in balance.... Ands yet this is an elite program...
You miss the subtle benefits of SS....for a newb that is....
Pullups are part of the SS program. I think its the number 1 assistance exercise from memory.
0ni
Registered Rustler