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CREATINE - Magic or Myth
- Thread starter vader-nator
- Start date
Shrek
Fucked up Kunce
But this is a forum where questions are welcomed and by asking the questions he is learning the basics, YEAH?
But this is a forum where questions are welcomed and by asking the questions he is learning the basics, YEAH?
Thanks Shrek, that's what I thought.....
Before I START ATP is used to transport chemical energy within cells to fuel metabolism. to dumb it down, this is what makes your muscles move in high intesnsity situations
THINK OF IT LIKE A V8 ENGINE. That said your muscles have this intense energy for about 3 seconds (yeah only 3) SO THE ENGINE CAN ONLY REV FOR 3 SECONDS AND THEN THE GAS DOESNT GET USED UP...IT JUST LOSES ITS OCTANE. when atp is finished (lets call atp a3p) A3p becomes A2p and it needs another 'P', muscle cells contain a high-energy phosphate compound called creatine phosphate, SO YOU RUN OUT OF GAS AND YOU NEED MORE BUT TO MAKE THE GAS YOU NEED CREATINE PHOSPHATE WHICH IS LIKE THE OCTANE THAT WILL MAKE YOUR ENGINE GO AGAIN. this phosphate molecule is added to the 'A2P' in a chemical cycle and it becomes a3p again and boom...another 3 seconds of energy (approx)
the more creatine you have, the longer you can cycle your ATP
More detail: During times of increased energy demands ie when your bench pressing a house, the phosphagen system rapidly resynthesizes ATP from ADP with the use of phosphocreatine (PCr) through a reversible reaction with the enzyme creatine kinase. Basically this of ATP -> ADP concersion as a cycle...when the cycle is over A3p becomes A2P and then phosocreatine lends a 'p' to A2P making it A3P (ATP) again. the longer this cycle can happen the longer ATP can last!
Increased water retention is actually due to the increase muscle glycogen needed ( glycogen is stored in water) to fuel the metabolic reactions that will occur from the increased creatine.
Voila
THINK OF IT LIKE A V8 ENGINE. That said your muscles have this intense energy for about 3 seconds (yeah only 3) SO THE ENGINE CAN ONLY REV FOR 3 SECONDS AND THEN THE GAS DOESNT GET USED UP...IT JUST LOSES ITS OCTANE. when atp is finished (lets call atp a3p) A3p becomes A2p and it needs another 'P', muscle cells contain a high-energy phosphate compound called creatine phosphate, SO YOU RUN OUT OF GAS AND YOU NEED MORE BUT TO MAKE THE GAS YOU NEED CREATINE PHOSPHATE WHICH IS LIKE THE OCTANE THAT WILL MAKE YOUR ENGINE GO AGAIN. this phosphate molecule is added to the 'A2P' in a chemical cycle and it becomes a3p again and boom...another 3 seconds of energy (approx)
the more creatine you have, the longer you can cycle your ATP
More detail: During times of increased energy demands ie when your bench pressing a house, the phosphagen system rapidly resynthesizes ATP from ADP with the use of phosphocreatine (PCr) through a reversible reaction with the enzyme creatine kinase. Basically this of ATP -> ADP concersion as a cycle...when the cycle is over A3p becomes A2P and then phosocreatine lends a 'p' to A2P making it A3P (ATP) again. the longer this cycle can happen the longer ATP can last!
Increased water retention is actually due to the increase muscle glycogen needed ( glycogen is stored in water) to fuel the metabolic reactions that will occur from the increased creatine.
Voila
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Creatine is advocated by the olympic training body within the Australian institute of sport Group A : Australian Institute of Sport : Australian Sports Commission
and fuck yeah it works
and fuck yeah it works
vader-nator
New member
I am now into the swing of things taking my daily 5gram dose as well as 6 caps of Creatine Nitrate before my workouts. I am a genuine drug free trainer and am naturally big. I can gain mass or fat fairly easily. So far as being bigger it really does seem to be working. At 42 years old I am about same size I was in 1998 so YES IT WORKS.
Arm measurements are 50.5cm after triceps workout but bodyfat is of no importance to me as I don't compete.
PROBLEM
One point I have noticed is the cramping problem. If I take the creatine Nitrate and then for some reason my workout is cancelled and I do not train, I find myself suffering from terribly hellish muscle cramps. I had one cramp in my calf so bad the calf was sore for about a week. Was it just a coincidence or was it the Nitrate? My dad began getting bad cramps in his forties. Perhaps I am just following his lead.
Arm measurements are 50.5cm after triceps workout but bodyfat is of no importance to me as I don't compete.
PROBLEM
One point I have noticed is the cramping problem. If I take the creatine Nitrate and then for some reason my workout is cancelled and I do not train, I find myself suffering from terribly hellish muscle cramps. I had one cramp in my calf so bad the calf was sore for about a week. Was it just a coincidence or was it the Nitrate? My dad began getting bad cramps in his forties. Perhaps I am just following his lead.
vader-nator
New member
19 and 7/8th so just 1/8th away from 20". Pretty cool for a life time drug free garage trainer.
6 creatine nitrate caps and a double shot skim cappuccino with 3 sugars about 45 mins before workout.
Workout was just this superset. Push downs followed by 2 arm dumbell curls
Triceps cable push downs 70kg x 10 reps +
Seated strict supinated dumbell curls 30kg each arm 12 reps Both at same time (not alternate)
Repeated above push pull supersets with reducing weight over 6 supersets with little rest. Pumped up and up and up. Was quite nutz
vader-nator
New member
Nothing so scientific. 5g is Just what the guys have mentioned in earlier posts. Once cumulative loading effect reached then full. After that word is that you only need 5g per day to stay loaded. The 6 caps of Nitrate seem to do more than anything else, but hey I'm just speaking for myself. I'n not a placebo nut either as I tend not to take supplements at all before this little jaunt into all things creatine.
Hey mate. Yeah, just wondering cause i'm taking 5g a day (after a loading phase) but I was thinking that a person who is 100kg might need to take more than say a 80kg person.
MaxBrenner
New member
Will all come back to total LBM not overall weight.
But over time you will have full saturation regardless of the dosing protocol and loading etc.
Will all come back to total LBM not overall weight.
But over time you will have full saturation regardless of the dosing protocol and loading etc.
Cool. Thanks Max
Isn't creatines increase in performance around a few percent.
So even though creatine works you are probably unlikely to be able to personally notice the couple of percent benefit from it anyway. Even though over the long term the benefit will be there.
To be honest i'm not quite sure, but the general concensus around the online bb.com community is that is helps retain water to make you look "fuller" and also pump out probably 1 extra rep which would help in the long run. For me the water retentation never happened for me but wasn't t he reason i used creatine so didn't bother me but i didn't notice any difference in strength/endurance even though if its just a little so i stopped supplementing it and i've been fine
I gave my bottle of creatine to my mate whos started lifting a bit after me 3-4 months now and he responded to creatine alot better. He gained "3kg" in a week, i'm not sure if thats because of the time of day he measured or what but his seen increase in a strength/reps but that could just be placebo!
Oh well
The Hamburgler
Spotter Loader
It's probably 3kg of water
MaxBrenner
New member
I'd take the general consensus of BB.COM with a grain of salt or dextrose
Creatine causes INTRAMUSCULAR water retention, not the bloat that is generally associated with creatine supplementation.
This is generally what happens, creatine is used by bro's on their 'bulking' phases. But what happens on their bulking phase is their carbohydrate intake goes up, overall calorie intake goes up, sodium intake increase (unknowingly) and then they are carrying all this 'extra water' or are 'bloated'. What gets the blame, good old creatine.
Also, there are a lot of 'creatine' products that contain some form of carbohydrate and a large amount of it, think Cell-Tech. Now last time I looked at the back of Cell-Tech, 70%+ of the contents where dextrose! You want water retention, Oh I mean you want to gain 7lbs in 7 days you got it
Yes there are non responders at that is about 20% of people. Why? Well it is not completely known but it would have to be something to do with the mechanisms involved in uptake and/or ATP cycle IMO.
Amount of benefit? well that is hard to pin point as there are many other intangibles and variables that effect training performance/ability/muscular hypertrophy. You may get an extra ~5% out of your training over time if you are doing EVERYTHING else right.
Here is some reading for your leisure -
Effects of creatine supplementation and ... [J Strength Cond Res. 2003] - PubMed - NCBI
Effects of creatine on isometric bench-... [Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2002] - PubMed - NCBI
Effects of creatine supplementation and ... [J Strength Cond Res. 2007] - PubMed - NCBI
Creatine causes INTRAMUSCULAR water retention, not the bloat that is generally associated with creatine supplementation.
This is generally what happens, creatine is used by bro's on their 'bulking' phases. But what happens on their bulking phase is their carbohydrate intake goes up, overall calorie intake goes up, sodium intake increase (unknowingly) and then they are carrying all this 'extra water' or are 'bloated'. What gets the blame, good old creatine.
Also, there are a lot of 'creatine' products that contain some form of carbohydrate and a large amount of it, think Cell-Tech. Now last time I looked at the back of Cell-Tech, 70%+ of the contents where dextrose! You want water retention, Oh I mean you want to gain 7lbs in 7 days you got it
Yes there are non responders at that is about 20% of people. Why? Well it is not completely known but it would have to be something to do with the mechanisms involved in uptake and/or ATP cycle IMO.
Amount of benefit? well that is hard to pin point as there are many other intangibles and variables that effect training performance/ability/muscular hypertrophy. You may get an extra ~5% out of your training over time if you are doing EVERYTHING else right.
Here is some reading for your leisure
- Effects of creatine supplementation and ... [J Strength Cond Res. 2003] - PubMed - NCBI
Effects of creatine on isometric bench-... [Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2002] - PubMed - NCBI
Effects of creatine supplementation and ... [J Strength Cond Res. 2007] - PubMed - NCBI