clean and press. What are your thoughts?

[Bazza20]

idk this guy didn't seem to have any problems lol
[youtube]3nJrYPVJ88M[/youtube]

you can adjust your hand placement after you catch the clean before you press anyway. not all that difficult and you'll find most WL do this before the jerk

Thats obviously a huge press but it's doesn't show if he does or doesn't press more from the rack.

Like i said before when you clean the bar it doesn't always end up in the perfect position even after you adjust.

I'm willing to bet most OL jerk more from the rack than what they clean and jerk.

 

[Bench Polkov]

That isn't a clean and press xD
No knee bend or momentum is used while doing c+p, if it is then you're doing a push press and you would be able to generate more force off the delts with a quick knee bend than coming up from a clean and pressing in one fluid motion

I cleaned it, I pressed it. I use a quick knee bend too. I try to make it one fluid motion as its also good conditioning.

I don't understand why you are still arguing against the clean and press. Why are you arguing against a commonly used and much lauded exercise? What do you know that thousands of experienced strength coaches don't?

 

[The Hamburgler]

Thats obviously a huge press but it's doesn't show if he does or doesn't press more from the rack.

Like i said before when you clean the bar it doesn't always end up in the perfect position even after you adjust.

I'm willing to bet most OL jerk more from the rack than what they clean and jerk.

I can't find any reports of him ever putting more than that overhead (include jerks lol).

And I'm willing to bet most OL will put more overhead in comp than they do at training from a rack

 

[0ni]

I cleaned it, I pressed it. I use a quick knee bend too. I try to make it one fluid motion as its also good conditioning.

I don't understand why you are still arguing against the clean and press. Why are you arguing against a commonly used and much lauded exercise? What do you know that thousands of experienced strength coaches don't?

Again, I'm not arguing against the clean and press, I'm saying that training them separately would allow you to lift more in both exercises! Do I need to go over this again? You've failed to explain why c+p > separating them and came up with some half-assed explanation on how c+p teaches rugby players how to tackle!

 

[Bazza20]

I can't find any reports of him ever putting more than that overhead (include jerks lol).

And I'm willing to bet most OL will put more overhead in comp than they do at training from a rack

Do you have his training journal?

my best push press and clean individually are the same. But I haven't been able to clean and push press within 10kg of them.

I don't care about the clean and press, it's a good exercise but most people will clean and press less weight that what they press from the rack. Does it really matter?? I doubt it, just go with what you prefer.

 

[Bench Polkov]

Again, I'm not arguing against the clean and press, I'm saying that training them separately would allow you to lift more in both exercises! Do I need to go over this again? You've failed to explain why c+p > separating them and came up with some half-assed explanation on how c+p teaches rugby players how to tackle!

Firstly, I never said it taught them how to tackle.

Secondly, you are arguing against the clean and press, you've been arguing against it from the start by saying there's no reason to do them unless they're training the movement or personal preference. That's why we are still having this argument, because you refuse to accept that they have benefits.

I also never discounted separating them. I just said you don't need to and that there are benefits to doing them together. Sure you might be able to clean more in the single movement for one or a few reps, but not necessarily for higher reps like I do them as the clean is a very taxing exercise. A lower weight allows me to do higher reps for conditioning and also allows me to press the weight which I am capable of doing for high reps because I push press the weight. I perform a strict military press first before I use the C&P so the weight I use is similar if not the same.

I also perform the movements separately but for different purposes. Is that so hard to understand?

 

[0ni]

Firstly, I never said it taught them how to tackle.

Secondly, you are arguing against the clean and press, you've been arguing against it from the start by saying there's no reason to do them unless they're training the movement or personal preference. That's why we are still having this argument, because you refuse to accept that they have benefits.

I also never discounted separating them. I just said you don't need to and that there are benefits to doing them together. Sure you might be able to clean more in the single movement for one or a few reps, but not necessarily for higher reps like I do them as the clean is a very taxing exercise. A lower weight allows me to do higher reps for conditioning and also allows me to press the weight which I am capable of doing for high reps because I push press the weight. I perform a strict military press first before I use the C&P so the weight I use is similar if not the same.

I also perform the movements separately but for different purposes. Is that so hard to understand?

I didn't say that it was an unbeneficial exercise, I just said that there was no benefit to them over separating them!

 

[Bench Polkov]

I didn't say that it was an unbeneficial exercise, I just said that there was no benefit to them over separating them!

Did you miss the benefits I've mentioned?

Time efficient.
Better for conditioning.
A longer chain movement, which I sure would be better for core strength as you have to maintain stability for a greater time.

 

[Fadi]

In my own opinion i believe c&P to be on par with the likes of the squat and deadlift, and would use it before benching if i had to choose.
Simply for the majority of muscles it requires.

But anyone else have any thoughts on it?

I would not advice anyone (other than an Olympic weightlifter) to perform a clean. If you wish to do what you've suggested, then I would modify it to the following:

1. Power Clean
2. Front squat
3. Press

Or

1. Power Clean
2. Press
3. Front squat

Why do I not recommend anyone (apart from the weightlifter) to perform the clean? Simply because they don't have to. It's not a requirement of their sport as it is in Olympic weightlifting.

So what if it's not a requirement? Well, since prevention of injury is still better than its cure any day, why risk knee injury when you don't need to?

That is why and the rest is up to you.


Fadi.

 

[Bench Polkov]

I'll admit that I what I do is probably a power clean rather than an olympic clean. I've never really been taught the movement, I just kind of learnt to cues.

Are proper cleans really that bad for your knees?

 

[haz]

I can't find any reports of him ever putting more than that overhead (include jerks lol).

And I'm willing to bet most OL will put more overhead in comp than they do at training from a rack

ill take that bet.

 

[Bazza20]

I'll admit that I what I do is probably a power clean rather than an olympic clean. I've never really been taught the movement, I just kind of learnt to cues.

Are proper cleans really that bad for your knees?

Cleans/power cleans smash my knees. I get patella tendinitis bad from them. I love doing them but have now scrapped them for speed deads.

 

[0ni]

Charles Poliquin on C+P vs separating the exercise. Awaiting response from Glenn Pendlay and Mark Rippetoe. Hopefully this will settle this matter and just so you know, I'm not debating anything for more than one day in a row and it's a shame it couldn't be settled without two of the members here directly insulting me!

 

[adamklam]

in summary:

c+p is great for:
GPP and MetCon which is why crossfitnatics love it
training efficacy
coordination

If you want to build your clean or press directly, it is better to do them separately.
Regardless the C+P will assist in building general strength and fitness

 

[Goosey]

It will improve co-ordination, for the movement, it won't transfer to anything else.

Otherwise your summery is In my view, correct.

 

[Bench Polkov]

Charles Poliquin on C+P vs separating the exercise. Awaiting response from Glenn Pendlay and Mark Rippetoe. Hopefully this will settle this matter and just so you know, I'm not debating anything for more than one day in a row and it's a shame it couldn't be settled without two of the members here directly insulting me!

Well that was one hell of a convoluted circle. You'll note that those are two of the benefits I mentioned earlier.

 

[0ni]

Well that was one hell of a convoluted circle. You'll note that those are two of the benefits I mentioned earlier.

And going back to my original statement, clean + press is not needed to achieve these benefits and you may as well train them separately

inb4 this turns into a heated argument again

 

[0ni]

Pendlay on clean and press, stating that clean & press doesn't really save time, because you're not combining the two movements to elicit one training effect and would still need to clean to make significant progress

 

[adamklam]

pretty sure he just said C+P doesnt replace C only... big point to take away from his comment is the last line - depends on training plan...

unless there is more to it than what you've shown

 

[0ni]

pretty sure he just said C+P doesnt replace C only... big point to take away from his comment is the last line - depends on training plan...

unless there is more to it than what you've shown

It can replace pressing from the rack yes, but I was saying that there was no real advantage to doing so unless you want to or compete in an event where you need to clean and press.