Advanced Mike Mentzer Training, What the?

[vader-nator]

I have always ben a HIT trainer and have lived with the regret that even though I had his number, I never called Mike for a phone consultation......

BUT


It gets weird here.......

Over the past couple of years I have bumped into guys who DID.

The crazy story about Dorian doing a biceps workout was true for nearly all clients.

1 or 2 sets to Positive failure, then isometric failure, then negative failure on the final rep. That's it. Megga bucks to be told to regulate frequency of workouts to almost never and only a couple of sets per workout.


Imagine doing a savage set of squats then not being allowed to train again for a couple of weeks. Not even upper body..........

That would mean each body part would be once per month.......

This is silly buggers.......BUT each of the dudes who trains like this is BIG.

He also said that muscular de-compensation is not true. We all feel ourselves fading away to a shadow when we haven't hit a body part for 72 hours. Mike seemed to think it would take weeks and that we are all paranoid.


Heres the craziest part of all. The bigger you get the less you do both in volume and frequency. Hit it hard like dinamite then go home.

Sounds like a scam to me. Especially when he died at 49.

But being both lazy and a mad scientist I have been experimenting.

Day 1 Dips/ Shoulder press
Day 2 off
Day 3 off
Day 4 Chins Rows Deads
Day 5 off
Day 6 off
Day 7 Chest Biceps
Day 8 off
Day 9 off
Day 10 Squats ( 20 Rep )
Day 11 off
Day 12 off

Specific body part workout once every 12 days.

I am so unfit squats and deads cause near death experience

BUT

I am still gaining...........

If I plateau here then I need to add more rest days.

Sounds like a recipe for a heart attack to me.

I think I am going to go back to more frequent workouts even if I plateau!

I want to train to be well, not just big.

Make no mistake though, I haven't gone backwards on 6 cycles of this silly minimalist shit.

My point. Not all Mentzer stuff is as gospel as you may believe, but there are strange cracks in my solid reality.

REMEMBER

None of us are 100% on target......

Remember what Albert Einstine said

""Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods."

I am now convinced that I have absolutely no idea what I am doing

I just do it because I like to.

 

[Ben]

Hmmm.

What weights are you putting up mate? If you are really unfit and just starting out again, wouldn't you continue to gain on any program?

If you are a mad scientist Rob, try this:

Pete Sisco's Static Contraction Training - Index

 

[vader-nator]

Hmmm.

What weights are you putting up mate? If you are really unfit and just starting out again, wouldn't you continue to gain on any program?

If you are a mad scientist Rob, try this:

Pete Sisco's Static Contraction Training - Index

Yep you're right. It's all muscle memory training return.

Pete Sisco is soooo similar to Mentzer and all of the heavy duty workouts. Thanks for pointing that out. Nothing in this life is a constant. People will continue to explore and modify.

To be brutally honest I am going to just go and train to be well. All the HIT and static stuff is very psychologically demanding. I't one of the reasons I keep stopping and starting all the time.

Thanks

 

[Jman_898]

interesting self experiment mate, thanks for the information it was a good read i always admire people taking things onto their own to see the results rather than spilling rubbish about this that and the other thing.... keep up the hard training champ cant wait to get stuck into things myself too..

 

[dave]

Yep you're right. It's all muscle memory training return.

My old neuroscience professor would be fuming if he read that.

Sounds like you are in for a tough few weeks, I know another guy who has actually just gone HIT style, he said the lactic acid and then cramp is killing him. Would be good to see how you go.
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[Ben]

To be brutally honest I am going to just go and train to be well.

Wise man

 

[vader-nator]

Wise man

LOL

Not wise just sick of torture.

Did a fun conventional workout tonight. Even did some pec dec and cable crossovers for pumpy goodness to finish off. Left the gym feeling happy and pumped up like a balloon.

Gone are the days when a HIT leg workout would cause migraines. I kid you not. I actually used to train legs in a scary and insane place. So much so that on HIT leg day I would have flashing lightsing my eyes, a KILLER head ache and throwing up....... if for some reason it was called off I would be better in a few minutes. I even spoke to a specialist / then a shrink.... Numerous diagnosis..... Post traumatic stress.

You know that evil electric surge of pain in your quads just as you end a set of leg extensions? I had taken that to a high point where the pain surge lasted for up to 5 mins and no amount of crawling around on the gym floor or cowering under the leg press would make it go away....... " Leave him alone he gets like that...." LOL
( Like a deal with the devil )
If you knew you had to hit your thumb on an anvil with a hammer ( hard ) to get big muscles...... would you do it? How often would you face it before you cracked?

Being drug free I always used to pride myself in starting my set where everyone else calls it quits. I could never out muscle the mass monsters but I could usually out insane most.

Perhaps I am just a sook, but hanging around in a torture chamber is the LAST PLACE I want to be these days.

Lately I am just training like average joe and it is actually fun again.

 

[Goosey]

There have been many spurious versions of HIT.
Mentzer was a trouble sole his brother died soon after, mike was on a cocktail of drugs and medication.
Mentzer was training at Deland with Arthur Jones where he made most of his progress, mentzer wanted to be athurs right hand man, arthur told his security keep mentzer out of the facility.
Arthur jones used the term HIT once or twice, but there is no doubt that menzter made his most gains under Arthur jones training at Deland.
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[lkt004]

TBH, to do HIT training properly, you need atleast 2 spotters, not many people can go to ABSOLUTE failure, it takes alot of mental strength to do it properly.

 

[vader-nator]

TBH, to do HIT training properly, you need atleast 2 spotters, not many people can go to ABSOLUTE failure, it takes alot of mental strength to do it properly.

I used to be a member of Tom Platz's forum until it went belly up.

When I discussed my crazy leg training issue he said not to do it all the time.
The best benefit from such workouts he said were as occasional freak outs for the body.

Tom basically said to me that what ever you do in your formative years is of great benefit and from then on just try to keep your body guessing and off guard so it has ha hard time adapting.

Being a huge fan of Mike, I memorized all of his books and have kept detailed training journals since day 1. His concepts are very psychologically valid but there are flaws. Human frailty is one.

In 2007 I was doing dips with 60kg
I did 4 positive reps then on failing 4th rep I held at the top for 20 seconds ultil isometric failure then was lowering the negative over about 6 seconds failing on the negative when BANG! My right triceps tendon ruptured. ( No jerking cheating or throwing ) I had done nothing wrong. Perfect slow careful movement. My heart broke that day and I have never been a religious HIT practitioner since.

Injury boy f@cked up yet again!

 

[Ben]

When I discussed my crazy leg training issue

What was that? The noises?

 

[vader-nator]

What was that? The noises?

LOL, no the voices in my head are a different problem.

The stupid post traumatic stress migraines etc. Couldn't face a leg day without genuine migraine, lights in eyes and throw up before working out and incomprehensible head pain. Not a panic attack either, not even really thinking about it. Just real crappy migraine, and it would go, away if workout called off.

Oh yeah my knees do make that evil crackling sound these days but that doesn't happen unless doing super slow reps.

I am now training like the enemy. Pec dec, leg press, cable curls, smith machine inclines.........

I am feeling happy and enjoying training. My days of torture are done.

I have always hated pumpers.........

Oh crap.....

LOL

What ever floats your boat!

 

[PTC]

More muscle has been built in the last 100 years by regular progressive weight training than any 10 super duper advanced programs.

Mike Mentzer told me face to face that he took speed and steroids to get through his training sessions.

Did Arnold use Mentzers Heavy Duty, Ronnie, Jay, Lee? Aside from 1 Mr Olympia, they all used conventional training methods.

Dorian and Mike are my all time favourite bodubuilders, but none of them started out training that way.

Once they hit the drugs, they found they could train harder less often and improve. Its a no brainer.

Do what they do outside the gym first, then do what they do in the gym. It goes hand in hand.

Training Heavy Duty for too long without drugs will lead to injury, you should know this of all people Vader.

 

[Oli]

I agree with PTC.

HIT flies in the face of periodisation, I think the main reason it works is because of the step down in volume it uses.

Theres nothing wrong with your plan vader, but I reckon if you worked on percentages of your lifts rather than maxing out you could train more and get better results.

Another issue is that whilst muscle stays conditioning might go to shit.

 

[Goosey]

if we are talking about "HIT"
Don't confuse Menzter with Arthur Jones.

Mentzer got big using compound exercises.
He trained with jones at deland, mentzer had emotional issues, jones told his security not to let him back, partly to do with drug use.

Mentzer went on to develope his style based on what he learnt from jones and the deland crew.

There is no doubt mentzer maid more progress at deland than anywhere.
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[Goosey]

When I say the deland crew that's, Olivia, viator, liestner, Kim wood, darden and many more.

Mentzer wanted to be the face of Nautilus, Arthur wanted him out.

That and losing to Arnold effected him greatly.
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[PTC]

Kim Wood, legendary strength coach for football.

Sergio was the only person at the time that registered a 20" arm cold on Jones' steel tape measure, Franco's were under 16" from memory, Arnolds were under 20"

Viator of the Colorado experiment, which was flawed, Darden has tunnel vision and Ken is a legend.

I got to use some old Nautilus equipment at Supershape in Albury on the weekend Andy, Sean posted some footage on ns.com lol.

Laurie Butler has the full range, hip/back,crunch,pullover,press,side laterals,bicep,tricep,leg press etc

 

[Goosey]

Kim Wood, legendary strength coach for football.

Sergio was the only person at the time that registered a 20" arm cold on Jones' steel tape measure, Franco's were under 16" from memory, Arnolds were under 20"

Viator of the Colorado experiment, which was flawed, Darden has tunnel vision and Ken is a legend.

I got to use some old Nautilus equipment at Supershape in Albury on the weekend Andy, Sean posted some footage on ns.com lol.

Laurie Butler has the full range, hip/back,crunch,pullover,press,side laterals,bicep,tricep,leg press etc

VG!
Direct me to the video Markos.

 

[PTC]

There are some on this page and the next. The thread is 154 pages long, so we locked it and started again.

m&m's place - Hardtuned.net - Page 153

Enjoy lol

 

[vader-nator]

Thanks guys,

I think there is no real substitute for hard work, nutrient dense food, sensible rest and visualization.

Having been a die hard Mentzer practitioner for so many years, I have become very locked in about what I am willing to believe.

As advanced as it may be and as philosopically sound as it is, I have begun to make new discoveries in recent months. I was like a Mentzer Bible basher for 15 years or more. Everyone else was wrong.......

Funny thing is, I have recently begun just training to be well. Normal pyramiding of reps / sets etc and nothing mind blowing or soul destroying intensity wise. I seem to be coming back again to same old me. No injury, no migraines and workouts are fun.