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Beginners program

Shoulder Health and Proper Rowing Form

Pay attention to this too. Doing exactly what this guy says not to do is how I hurt my shoulder. Limit your ROM.

Also do some reverse flyes, or some rows with flared elbows with a wide grip, to hit the rear delts and rear postural muscles. I only have to use 25kg for these to be effective for me.

Sometimes less ROM is better on chin ups too (chin to bar, not chest to bar). I hurt my shoulder by pulling my entire body really close to the bar on chins with a close palms towards me grip.. Use your lats, just be aware too much ROM can hurt you.

Doing the back movements improperly will cause you a lot of grief, trust me, I've been there.
 
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uppon2 said:
I'm talking about back angle. So I'm suppose to be leaning all the way over rather than half way ish. Thanks, I have watched people stand in a different position where they are squatting down back only half way bent and they pull the bar over the legs (almost touching and in some cases touching the legs by accident) so the bar is being pull backwards and upwards at the same time
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I don't quite understand how people can get this so wrong.

To make the most of the exercise your torso needs to be horizontal, you need to imagine that the resistance is being applied to the back of the elbow, rather than in the hands.

If you are unable to bring your shoulder blades together you have too much weight on the bar.

Single arm rows with a dumbbell on a bench are a good exercise to use for a beginner.
Actually a safer alternative to the barbell for biulding back strength.
 
Kuntze said:
I don't quite understand how people can get this so wrong.

To make the most of the exercise your torso needs to be horizontal, you need to imagine that the resistance is being applied to the back of the elbow, rather than in the hands.

If you are unable to bring your shoulder blades together you have too much weight on the bar.

Single arm rows with a dumbbell on a bench are a good exercise to use for a beginner.
Actually a safer alternative to the barbell for biulding back strength.
Click to expand...

This is why. So many people do it with this type of technique but extremely exaggerated! I have only ever see people at the gym do it like.

This is why


What is funny is that after typing in "Pendlayrows" I get the EXACT video to show why I was confused. I am no longer confused

This is the video I'm talking about
 
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Kuntze said:
Single arm rows with a dumbbell on a bench are a good exercise to use for a beginner.
Actually a safer alternative to the barbell for biulding back strength.
Click to expand...

Good for lower back but as its primarily a lat exercise and does very little for the rear delts and rhomboids, its not good unless you combine it with a good amount of facepulls or barbell rows with arms flared.

I sound like a broken record here but this just keeps getting ignored and I can assure you doing dumbell rows alone as a pulling movement will fuck you up.
 
jj80 said:
Good for lower back but as its primarily a lat exercise and does very little for the rear delts and rhomboids, its not good unless you combine it with a good amount of facepulls or barbell rows with arms flared.

I sound like a broken record here but this just keeps getting ignored and I can assure you doing dumbell rows alone as a pulling movement will fuck you up.
Click to expand...

This might be specific to you? I've never had any issues and when I do rows I use elbows at my side...

I am listening though and have been adding in some lighter sets with flared elbows
..
 
It was my physio's recommendation, and he's squatted over 220kg in his prime, and is a strong bugger who knows a thing or two.

I suppose when you have arms directly alongside you it almost completely takes out the rear delts, whereas when they're flared like they might be in a bench press it's more 50/50, which could be fine for most. Doing them completely flared is probably a good idea for those with postural issues like me, but I would also be doing some lat work then as well.

Doing them flared is basically just like a face pull, I would think. One or the other should be ok. I currently find the bar weight (20kg) challenging for reps of 10-15 with a squeeze at the top for flared.

But there's a lot to doing this exercise correctly, there should even be a thread on it in my opinion. It gets overlooked too much and thats why you see 'lawnmowers' with dumbells in gyms by people with shitty posture, and weird rows with 150kg that look more like a retarded half deadlift/shrug. And people like me making sure they balance 'push with pull' but still getting injured.
 
jj80 said:
Good for lower back but as its primarily a lat exercise and does very little for the rear delts and rhomboids, its not good unless you combine it with a good amount of facepulls or barbell rows with arms flared.

I sound like a broken record here but this just keeps getting ignored and I can assure you doing dumbell rows alone as a pulling movement will fuck you up.
Click to expand...

I read what your saying
As the muscles of the back pretty much work together here, your comment is a given and nothing new.

Secondly.
The row in its many forms is an overall back developer and you are just fuckin plain wrong and or just plain stupid to suggest that it is a primary lat builder.
 
Kuntze said:
I read what your saying
As the muscles of the back pretty much work together here, your comment is a given and nothing new.

Secondly.
The row in its many forms is an overall back developer and you are just fuckin plain wrong and or just plain stupid to suggest that it is a primary lat builder.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure he was saying that dumbbell rows are primarily lats, not that rows in general are primarily lats. Although I could be mistaken.

jj80, I've found that I can activate my rhomboids and lower traps a lot with close-grip seated rows (although I've recently come to prefer using a wider handle and flaring my elbows more), but with one-arm dumbbell rows it's almost all lat work.
 
All this time arguing about rowing could be used actually rowing :)
There are lots of variations, why not try them all at some stage? Pendlays, reverse grip, Kroc rows....inverted rows and lets not forget pull-ups as a good back builder too!
 
RyanF said:
Pretty sure he was saying that dumbbell rows are primarily lats, not that rows in general are primarily lats. Although I could be mistaken.

jj80, I've found that I can activate my rhomboids and lower traps a lot with close-grip seated rows (although I've recently come to prefer using a wider handle and flaring my elbows more), but with one-arm dumbbell rows it's almost all lat work.
Click to expand...


A row is a row is a row.
Elbow width is just poppycock.
Hand width, or the distance between hands (hands spacing) should be around or just past shoulder width to enable full contraction, anything narrower and you are not benefitting from this exercise.

Chin-ups are working the lats through the full range of its movement, just measure how far the elbow travels from stretch to contraction and youll see that all movements around the shoulder should be done overtime, or years.

Mix it up, have fun.
 
d1cko said:
all this time arguing about rowing could be used actually rowing :)
there are lots of variations, why not try them all at some stage? Pendlays, reverse grip, kroc rows....inverted rows and lets not forget pull-ups as a good back builder too!
Click to expand...


yeah!
 
I have personal experience - strong lats, weak ass piss delts, weak rhomboids, hunched posture - from concentrating on dumbell rows and relying on them as an overall back builder that tells me they're piss poor in this respect.

I have a physio who weight lifted for Australia telling me the same thing.

I have Hamburgler who I believe is a powerlifting coach reiterating the statement in another thread.

Who knows though, we could all be wrong and Goosey could be right. I would strongly urge people to do a variety of rows or supplement with face pulls or 'elbows flared' rows though, and not just use dumbells.

I am just trying to warn others against focussing on dumbell rows and chins as sole 'pulling movements' to prevent themselves getting injured.
 
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jj80 said:
I have personal experience - strong lats, weak ass piss delts, weak rhomboids, hunched posture - from concentrating on dumbell rows and relying on them as an overall back builder that tells me they're piss poor in this respect.

I have a physio who weight lifted for Australia telling me the same thing.

I have Hamburgler who I believe is a powerlifting coach reiterating the statement in another thread.

Who knows though, we could all be wrong and Goosey could be right. I would strongly urge people to do a variety of rows or supplement with face pulls or 'elbows flared' rows though, and not just use dumbells.

I am just trying to warn others against focussing on dumbell rows and chins as sole 'pulling movements' to prevent themselves getting injured.
Click to expand...

Goosey said mix it up and you're saying the same thing, I don't see an issue here.
However, dumbell rows are still a good overall back builder and regarding your "hunched posture", this will not be caused by any particular back exercise but rather it can be caused by neglecting back work in favour of too much pushing exercises like bench press.
 
I did dumbell rows and chins for about a year to develop the hunched posture. By the end I was rowing 30kg with strict form for 10-15 reps and able to do a chin up with 60kg attached to me at 104kg bodyweight. I didn't neglect dumbell rows or chins by any stretch of the imagination, yet my rhomboids and rear delts were very weak.

I've since gone backwards from this strength level due to a @#$$'d shoulder, but I'm working up to it again now I've fixed my form and added in band pulls, reverse flyes, and barbell rows with a wide grip and flaring of the elbows.
 
jj80 said:
I did dumbell rows and chins for about a year to develop the hunched posture. By the end I was rowing 30kg with strict form for 10-15 reps and able to do a chin up with 60kg attached to me at 104kg bodyweight. I didn't neglect dumbell rows or chins by any stretch of the imagination, yet my rhomboids and rear delts were very weak.
Click to expand...

Your rear delts were weak not from doing dumbell rows and chins but because you simply neglected to work your rear delts.
I fail to see how any back exercise performed correctly can give you a hunched posture, it would be quite the opposite.
 
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