zyzz hahahahahah fuck,,

[Oli]

Read the Westside Book of Methods. Louie Simmons is by no means an expert author but he is a strong bastard that has spent alot of time creating some of the strongest powerlifters on the planet.

How many IPF/USAPL/Raw Unity champions has he coached?

 

[Goosey]

Its quite interesting, these sorts of discussions have been going on round and round for the last 50 years.
All quite valid, one could also say: You cannot learn the proper method for training a race horse, by asking a race horse.

I know very little about Rippetoe, but from what I see he has helped many.

I would back it in that most trainees lifting big are in fact lifting big in spite of their training rather than because of it.

 

[Sherro]

How many IPF/USAPL/Raw Unity champions has he coached?

Couldn't tell you. He is a gear whore at heart. They won't work in anything less then briefs for dynamic days. I'm pretty sure he wears a bench shirt to get out of bed in the morning.

Westside has had 59 members total 2000 or more, 57 members have squatted over 800. 6 have totaled over 2600.

I know of a guy who went for an internship at westside. He was training raw at the time. They gave him so much shit he became a gear whore. Louie doesn't train raw lifters himself but his methods (The Westside Method/Conjugate Method) have been and still are used by some of the strongest raw/single and multiply lifters.

 

[Kyle Aaron]

Read the Westside Book of Methods. Louie Simmons is by no means an expert author but he is a strong bastard that has spent alot of time creating some of the strongest powerlifters on the planet.

The [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Westside-Barbell-Book-Methods/dp/0982150407]review[/ame] of Simmons' book says,

"First, this book is NOT written for beginners."​

I said,

I would be interested to hear of these other ways, provided they have actually produced results for a significant number of people from beginners onwards. I'm not really interested in how advanced people become elite, it's just not part of my day-to-day work.

From beginners onwards. That's what I'm interested in. Whether it's beginners to intermediate, beginners to Paul Anderson, or whatever, that's fine. But it has to include complete beginners or it's no use to me.

Nobody is going to walk into my gym with a 200kg squat and ask me how to make it 220kg. Not going to happen. I get the person who has never squatted before at all and who if they go straight into squatting the empty bar it swings around like they're drunk, they have to start even more basic than that.

It's Spritcha who wants to hear about people coaching world-class lifters. Given his level of training and where he'd like to take it, this makes sense, and good on him. For the vast majority of people training and their coaches and trainers, that stuff is just irrelevant.

 

[Oli]

Couldn't tell you. He is a gear whore at heart. They won't work in anything less then briefs for dynamic days. I'm pretty sure he wears a bench shirt to get out of bed in the morning.

Westside has had 59 members total 2000 or more, 57 members have squatted over 800. 6 have totaled over 2600.

I know of a guy who went for an internship at westside. He was training raw at the time. They gave him so much shit he became a gear whore. Louie doesn't train raw lifters himself but his methods (The Westside Method/Conjugate Method) have been and still are used by some of the strongest raw/single and multiply lifters.

I'm not a westside fan. A 1000 geared squat in a monolift fed is still strong but when you compare that to some of the squats the IPF guys do its simply blown out of the water. Their training seems to be miles away from that of westside as well.

Spiritcha if you're willing to explain in a thread or something I'm very willing to listen. It would be awesome to know how you lot train beyond the excel sheets that go around.

 

[Sherro]

The review of Simmons' book says,

"First, this book is NOT written for beginners."​

I said,

From beginners onwards. That's what I'm interested in. Whether it's beginners to intermediate, beginners to Paul Anderson, or whatever, that's fine. But it has to include complete beginners or it's no use to me.

Don't write it off because some people on Amazon got a little scared by the big words and concepts. I would not give that book to someone who has no training experience and call it an all encompassing guide to training. I would give it to some one like you Kyle. It won't teach you everything but it will give you a different perspective on how others train.

I have used a slightly modified Conjugate plan with a couple of the guys I play rugby with and they have all increased their squat, bench and dead.

You could also look at Joe Defranco's "Westside for Skinny Bastards". He takes the Westside method and adds more emphasis on hypertrophy to build muscle mass on a "skinny bastard". Articles - DeFranco's Training

 

[haz]

who would've thought a Zyzz thread would turn into something good. I would love to hear what Steve recommends etc.

 

[Bench Polkov]

In regards to Westside, I used it for around 12-18 months while I was living in London. It is a great template that can be easily adapted to the raw lifter (I dumped speed benching and box squats as they didn't seem to be helping me - interestingly enough, after reading an article on Westside by Wendler).

I was what I would call an intermediate lifter at the time but WSB took me to 200/160/230 and added 5-7kgs.

Annoyingly enough I then spent a few months traveling on my way back from London and had to start from scratch when I resettled in Oz.

 

[TGM]

Of the two elite lifters I have in mind- both are world ranked and both have coached athletes to elite levels.
My understanding is that both Wendler and Rip are average athletes at best- at least in terms of powerlifts- I was wondering whether their coaching credentials actually included coaching elite powerlifters primarily because I have heard that their systems are aimed at beginners and hobby lifters- and yet so many people go on about their systems as if they are something special. I'm not saying helping novices isn't important- but lets face it- getting an inactive person to do just about anything with safe form is going to yield results. They may offer fairly good systems for beginners- but they both have serious followings and sometimes the followers make them out to be something more than trainers of beginners.
I'm not into starting a shit fight- but a comment I heard from a coach was if you want to get strong at powerlifts there are better ways of doing it.
I only bring this up because, with no background knowledge of this debate between McDonald and Rip, I am interested to see some many Rip supporters attacking McDonald for his lack of athletic results.

This is correct, Rip himself has stated that he was a mediocre athlete at best. He never claimed to do anything more than get skinny kids stronger.

But he has a hilarious writing style, tells it like it is, and wrote a very good book. The cult following is due guys on the internet gaining 10kg and thinking it's the best thing since sliced bread. Like others said, Rip never claimed that he was good at anything other than coaching novices.

EDIT: Looks like I replied a bit late, but yeah I too would like to hear your thoughts on training novices.

 

[PowerBuilder]

Interesting thread fellas.

I like what Andy said, about not asking a race horse about the training of a race

 

[Spritcha]

I'm not a coach or an expert. This all started because I just asked if they have coached any elite lifters. I have ideas about how to train, but I'm not putting myself out there as some kind of expert.
With regards to the question about westside, I know that Travis Bell is a top raw bencher who lifts with raw unity and trains at westside. They have produced countless champs across all sorts of divisions and feds. Even the Russian IPF guru Boris Sheiko quotes Simmons in his book.
Ok- back to the discussion about that knob on youtube???

 

[jchen]

I think its pretty much worn out.

I read earlier tonight its possible to make certain members post invisible? I only ask in this thread because it seems to have alot of traffic through it.

 

[Ben]

Well, I'll start the new thread in the powerlifting section.

Steve is by far the strongest here; let's make the most of it.