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what is this

bench press aye.. theres conflicting data that debates:

1. elbows in vs elbows out
2. flat back vs arched back


whats the proper technique?
 
Whats disgraceful is that some twat posted that on the internet.

How the f u c k can someone claim that as a bench press, it was a deadlift to the big dude.
 
PTC said:
Whats disgraceful is that some twat posted that on the internet.

How the f u c k can someone claim that as a bench press, it was a deadlift to the big dude.
Click to expand...

That was not a deadlift to the big dude Markos; it was a slight bent over row. So you wanna argue? OK, I win :D!!!

Ah your comment really made me laugh Markos; thanks coach!


Fadi.
 
When people arch their backs so much is it even considered a bench press by anyone`s standards?The back isn`t even on the bench - it`s only the shoulders touching.
 
In Powerlifting the shoulders and butt have to be on the bench. They are allowed to arch their back.
 
They really should change the name of their bench press and squat to the ARCH and DIP

That is a far more accurate description
 
I bench press with an arch but I keep my but on the bench. The real advantage with the arch is that it allows you to squeeze your shoulder blades together and really dig them into the bench which gives you a really solid base to bench press from. The arch isn't severe and I don't imagine it would reduce my range of movement by more than a centimeter or two.

I also keep my elbows in close to the body by using a slight rotation/correction of the elbow and keeping my lats tight. This really reduces the stress on my shoulder and it's more of a rotating movement rather than a hinging movement.

The only time I ever lift my but off the seat is on the last rep if I don't have a spotter and I've lost momentum. Driving the body up with the legs usually gives just enough momentum to finish the lift.
 
that was one of my points guys, that it was more of a bent over row, but also a bench press attempt. I like the suggestion of changin the name of the bench press to 'arch'. Hey dude, how much do you arch ? Haha.
I've always been facincted by the two man bench press & row routine. These guys at my gym do it a few times a week, both being 'the man' when doing the bench part
 
skidmark said:
I bench press with an arch but I keep my but on the bench. The real advantage with the arch is that it allows you to squeeze your shoulder blades together and really dig them into the bench which gives you a really solid base to bench press from. The arch isn't severe and I don't imagine it would reduce my range of movement by more than a centimeter or two.

I also keep my elbows in close to the body by using a slight rotation/correction of the elbow and keeping my lats tight. This really reduces the stress on my shoulder and it's more of a rotating movement rather than a hinging movement.

The only time I ever lift my but off the seat is on the last rep if I don't have a spotter and I've lost momentum. Driving the body up with the legs usually gives just enough momentum to finish the lift.
Click to expand...

Is your goal to simply throw a number out there or is it to stop people asking whether you lift or not.

I benched 165kg with a flat back, zero arch, elbows wide. I dont think I could even lift my bum off the bench when I pressed, I got taught how to lift correctly from day one though.

No one had to ask me if I lifted or not.

If your NOT training for maximum muscle involvement and development, keep doing what your doing.

Everyone has different goals
 
That amount of weight was very obviously beyond her ability to actually lift. In fact, I would be worried that if the big guy had stumbled or let go, not only would she not be able to press it, but her muscles would reflexively relax. And there's no way the other two could react quickly enough to stop it crushing her.

It's a strange thing with the human body, that if presented with a weight so much greater than it's used to dealing with that it may tear muscles, muscles reflexively relax. That's the thing behind those stretches where you stretch for a bit, the other person pushes your stretch further and you press against them, then relax - and get more stretch out of it.

So okay, I have benched 85kg. If you give me a liftoff I might be able to do negatives with (say) 110kg. But if you put 170kg on there, I won't be able to lower it slowly - I'll just collapse.

That's alright with a curl or something but could be lethal with a bench press. I'd be worried about it with that woman's... well, we can't call it a "lift", but yeah.

Unsafe training methods. Not good. Whatever your training goals, they should always include "not getting injured or killed."
 
Last edited:
PTC said:
Is your goal to simply throw a number out there or is it to stop people asking whether you lift or not.

I benched 165kg with a flat back, zero arch, elbows wide. I dont think I could even lift my bum off the bench when I pressed, I got taught how to lift correctly from day one though.

No one had to ask me if I lifted or not.

If your NOT training for maximum muscle involvement and development, keep doing what your doing.

Everyone has different goals
Click to expand...

I knew my post wouldn't be received well. But let me just say that until earlier this year I benched elbows wide and had done so for a while. The switch to the different technique didn't allow me to increase my lift immediately at all (madcows 5 x 5 and a good diet did however). As I said the method I use is a very slight arch and may decrease my range of movement very slightly at worst so I would doubt that I am decreasing muscle involvement (if I am still moving the bar over the same distance then surely the muscle involvement is similar). Since I've changed I've had great development in chest size and strength and I am happy with my progression. I wouldn't say I'm a lifter that cops outs and looks for the easy path with my lifts. My standard routine looks something like Squats, Military Press, Deadlift, Bench Press and Powerclean.

There's a very strong guy at my gym who is powerlifts and does so with great technique and has been doing so for 10 years from what he tells me (he no longer does it competively and is happy to just maintain what he has depending on his work commitments). He weighs approximately 90kgs and the other night he was squatting 190kg (significantly past parrallel with a narrow stance) for sets of 5 reps and I believe he did 6 sets at that weight from memory. When he benches he uses the same technique as I described and has given me pointers on my technique. He generally does his bench sets between 120-140kgs depending on rep range. He's very strong and looks it too. I take advice from this guy at every opportunity I get and would be happy to achieve strength anywhere near his.

I think you're a great coach Markos and there's no doubt you and your clients are strong. I would definately train if your gym if I was close. I don't believe what I described is limiting my development and I'm not the kind of guy that is just looking to throw numbers out there. When I use this technique I feel very stable and feel no pain or stress through my shoulder so it is something I'll stick with.
 
Pinching your shoulders back creates a bit of an arch which is impossible to avoid and I son`t see a problem with that.It is when you point your toes and raise your arse and entire lower back off the bench that it becomes completely bullsiht.Not having your elbows in can allow for over rotation of the shoulders as well so if you have weak/injured shoulders it is no doubt helpful.That isn`t to say elbows out is wrong though.Hell,Markos does it so it must be right.
A lot of guys at one of my gyms hang on to the bar,lift their entire body off the bench,swing their body back while leaning back as far as they can catching their head on the bench creating the biggest arch possible.As a result their chest is so high they can only press a few inches.It just looks stupid and dangerous.
 
Skid, I asked you a simple question, is your goal a number or development.

Thats all I asked, no need to get defensive, just answer the question.

Also, post up your lifts/time/weight, so I can judge your level, ie novice,intermediate,advanced
 
Kyle Aaron said:
That amount of weight was very obviously beyond her ability to actually lift. In fact, I would be worried that if the big guy had stumbled or let go, not only would she not be able to press it, but her muscles would reflexively relax. And there's no way the other two could react quickly enough to stop it crushing her.

It's a strange thing with the human body, that if presented with a weight so much greater than it's used to dealing with that it may tear muscles, muscles reflexively relax. That's the thing behind those stretches where you stretch for a bit, the other person pushes your stretch further and you press against them, then relax - and get more stretch out of it.

So okay, I have benched 85kg. If you give me a liftoff I might be able to do negatives with (say) 110kg. But if you put 170kg on there, I won't be able to lower it slowly - I'll just collapse.

That's alright with a curl or something but could be lethal with a bench press. I'd be worried about it with that woman's... well, we can't call it a "lift", but yeah.

Unsafe training methods. Not good. Whatever your training goals, they should always include "not getting injured or killed."
Click to expand...

You might be surprised what the body is capable of if you push it Kyle.

My PB lifts are in my sig but I have played with much heavier weigts with a view to overload. 190kg bench negatives, squat lock outs with up to 340kg, 270kg rack pulls, 240kg deload squats.

No muslce relaxing or injuries from any of those exercises.

What does not kill you only makes you stronger.
 
PTC said:
Skid, I asked you a simple question, is your goal a number or development.

Thats all I asked, no need to get defensive, just answer the question.

Also, post up your lifts/time/weight, so I can judge your level, ie novice,intermediate,advanced
Click to expand...

Sorry to come accross that way Markos, I was just trying to say I felt I had good guidance and have had good results with it.

My goal is development of course, mainly geared towards strength now. However for the last month or so I've been cutting down fat and improving fitness a bit before I head over to Japan next week so I've only been doing a strictly stength workout once a week.

I'm probably currently approximately 93-95 kg and 10% bodyfat and about 6 foot. I've been lifting for a few years but I was wasting my time with split programs. I've been training properly since May this year when I started 5 x 5. My program/training diary from that is here:

http://ausbb.com/member-training-diaries/8480-marks-training-diary.html

My lifts are pretty well novice to intermediate I would say considering my bodyweight (all raw):

Squat 135kg
Deadlift 180kg (form off a little)
Bench 105kg
Miltary Press 60kg x 5 (neglected my shoulders for too long)
Powerclean 85kg
Push Press - Haven't done these anywhere near a max lately.

Sorry to derail thread.
 
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