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what are peoples oppinions on bulking/cutting for the beginner or where someone is at

genuinely interested to see some scholarly articles (or at least review of scholarly articles) that prove or disprove whether or not "exchange" (ie, fat off and muscle on at the same time) does actually occur. and if so, in what sort of quantities?

as mr powahz suggests, case A and case C are probably commonly experienced. I'm currently in eating at what i *think* is a calorie deficit (at least it was 2 months ago when i was doing less resistance training), but my weight is staying relatively stable, my lifts are going up (slowly) and i feel like i'm carrying less fat but it's impossible for me to know precisely what's going on wrt composition. definitely not proof of "exchange". i'm not stressing it though - i'm just training consistently, hitting my protein target, staying under my fat, carb and cal targets and just accepting whatever happens.

also, getting stronger doesn't mean that you've gained muscle - strength is a combination of muscle cross-section and your central nervous system.
 
pumpiniron said:
So ur saying, you cant burn fat and build muscle?

I still have a fair bit of body fat, im not ripped or anything yet.
Click to expand...

I said...

"Not sure how you think that you added a 1kg of muscle mass while being in a constant calorie deficit..."


Calorie deficit equals weight loss of both fat and muscle... Unavoidable!!!

The biggest struggle in weight loss is trying to hold on to the lean mass you have... Notably some will hold onto more then others...

In order to gain muscle you will need to run periods of calorie excess...

So no you can't lose fat and gain muscle at the exact same time if you are in a constant calorie deficit...

But you can alternate between the two... ie fat loss 3.5 days... muscle gain 3.5 days... However these would largely counteract each other... Lyle Mcdonald uses this approach in one of his books for those seeking extra low bf%... (Not for novices anyway)
 
Last edited:
Definitely possible for beginners... back when i was in my early 20's, I lost 40 KG's and my biceps and quads got bigger (measured bigger, not just appearance) during the process.

If you have substantial fat stores, additional energy will be taken from those fat stores in preference to lean tissue...

eg, grossly simplified

Intake 2300 Kcal
BMR 1700 Kcal
Workout 500 Kcal
Calories required to build muscle : 200 Kcal
Calories gained from burning fat : 100 Kcal

Balanced... This balance becomes harder as your body fat percentage becomes lower as more LBM is burnt along with BF....
 
March83 said:
genuinely interested to see some scholarly articles (or at least review of scholarly articles) that prove or disprove whether or not "exchange" (ie, fat off and muscle on at the same time) does actually occur. and if so, in what sort of quantities?

.
Click to expand...


Same... would be genuinly interested to see peer reviewed literature on this...

Even if it did though it would make no difference to body composition IMO...

Body composition always comes back to the total you eat over the day week and month... Coupled with the right excercise....

Once again this is where its all at...
 
joe said:
I lost 55kg over a year. For the final 3 or so months of dieting at 5500kJ per day I went from around 35kg to 45kg on the military press. I improved my chin up ability too, and my biceps got bigger (so it wasn't just the weight loss helping with chins).

After coming off dieting muscle gain sped up a fair bit. But in my experience if you're using the muscle as you diet you will add to it, albeit slowly.
Click to expand...

It does strike me that so much of this is focussed on 'hardgainers', sure, i'm sure everyone gets to that point once trained enough, but some of us that are 'larger' have a lot more headroom to add muscle while losing fat.
 
nazzysmith said:
Same... would be genuinly interested to see peer reviewed literature on this...

Even if it did though it would make no difference to body composition IMO...

Body composition always comes back to the total you eat over the day week and month... Coupled with the right excercise....

Once again this is where its all at...
Click to expand...

When i lost a lot of weight (> 40KG in less than 6 months) while gaining some muscle, i actually ate quite a lot, i just did a _lot_ of cardio and weights. (and i was younger then, it's harder these days)

My Gyms '50 km' challenge at the time was a big help (row 50km on the rower over time)
 
Player said:
Ive seen people with dexas lose 5kg of fat and gain 0.5kgs lbm. Dont believe they were nubs.
But you said your looking skinner and skinnier. Probably not enough lbm to cut. I looked bigger when i cut.

Body recomp
Click to expand...

Take a look at my picture in body transformation to judge.
 
nazzysmith said:
I said...

"Not sure how you think that you added a 1kg of muscle mass while being in a constant calorie deficit..."


Calorie deficit equals weight loss of both fat and muscle... Unavoidable!!!

The biggest struggle in weight loss is trying to hold on to the lean mass you have... Notably some will hold onto more then others...

In order to gain muscle you will need to run periods of calorie excess...

So no you can't lose fat and gain muscle at the exact same time if you are in a constant calorie deficit...

But you can alternate between the two... ie fat loss 3.5 days... muscle gain 3.5 days... However these would largely counteract each other... Lyle Mcdonald uses this approach in one of his books for those seeking extra low bf%... (Not for novices anyway)
Click to expand...

i strongly suggest you read max brenners blog
 
nazzysmith said:
I said...

"Not sure how you think that you added a 1kg of muscle mass while being in a constant calorie deficit..."


Calorie deficit equals weight loss of both fat and muscle... Unavoidable!!!

The biggest struggle in weight loss is trying to hold on to the lean mass you have... Notably some will hold onto more then others...

In order to gain muscle you will need to run periods of calorie excess...

So no you can't lose fat and gain muscle at the exact same time if you are in a constant calorie deficit...

But you can alternate between the two... ie fat loss 3.5 days... muscle gain 3.5 days... However these would largely counteract each other... Lyle Mcdonald uses this approach in one of his books for those seeking extra low bf%... (Not for novices anyway)
Click to expand...

http://ausbb.com/nutrition-diet/16973-gaining-muscle-while-dropping-fat.html
strongly suggest you read this.
 
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