nazzysmith
kuncesmith
Cheers Max,
Appreciate the feedback...
Appreciate the feedback...
-
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Topic of the Week- When does supplement intake become excessive?
Skalatharx
Member
Wait that isn't oni?
JK lol
JK lol
Not sure why my post was deleted?
I'll repost it.
"Are you using Wikipedia as reference for real or as a joke to see it nobody notices?
I've been an on again/off again stim taker and I build up a tolerance very quickly, I have been off pre-workouts for months now and within 2 weeks I am already up to 6 heaped scoops of the Bulk Nutrients product, I think I'm going to have to just go without for much longer and only take it when I really need a lift.
It can't be good for you."
I come back to have a read and my post is gone and MaxB has edited his post and removed the Wikipedia links? Whats going on here...
I'll repost it.
"Are you using Wikipedia as reference for real or as a joke to see it nobody notices?
I've been an on again/off again stim taker and I build up a tolerance very quickly, I have been off pre-workouts for months now and within 2 weeks I am already up to 6 heaped scoops of the Bulk Nutrients product, I think I'm going to have to just go without for much longer and only take it when I really need a lift.
It can't be good for you."
I come back to have a read and my post is gone and MaxB has edited his post and removed the Wikipedia links? Whats going on here...
MaxBrenner
New member
Morgan, all the LINKS provided where simply for extra information and to expand on the topics mentioned. For educational purposes 
They where not used as a 'reference', not there would have been anything wrong with that. You clearly did not read them.
FYI, the Wiki LINKS that I did provide have got all VALID information and actually give a much more in depth explanation on the 2 subjects. IMO the literature on the 2 subjects was better constructed than a number of other sources. Though the same can not be said for all content found on Wiki.
With that said, that was just another failed attempt to question my credibility. That is based of the fact you made a poor effort to question my credibility and morals in a previous Thread. If that is your opinion, that is fine and you are entitled to have it but personal attacks of that nature only make you look foolish especially when your argument lacks any substance or justification.
So Morgan, don't hate, just appreciate
They where not used as a 'reference', not there would have been anything wrong with that. You clearly did not read them.FYI, the Wiki LINKS that I did provide have got all VALID information and actually give a much more in depth explanation on the 2 subjects. IMO the literature on the 2 subjects was better constructed than a number of other sources. Though the same can not be said for all content found on Wiki.
With that said, that was just another failed attempt to question my credibility. That is based of the fact you made a poor effort to question my credibility and morals in a previous Thread. If that is your opinion, that is fine and you are entitled to have it but personal attacks of that nature only make you look foolish especially when your argument lacks any substance or justification.
So Morgan, don't hate, just appreciate
NS & M75, I'll give you a quick run down and keep it as simple as possible becuase it can get very 'technical'.
Yes I was referring to Central Nervous System. Over stimulation can cause general CNS functional downgrade. Meaning it simply does not function at optimum levels.
Look at it like this, when you first take a 'stimulant' it blows your mind. Then over time (if used regularly) it 'wears' off and you need to take more to get the 'same' effect. It is not that people get 'used' to it, it is simply that CNS function has suffered a downgrade. The fact that the CNS requires more 'stimulation' to function at the desired level. It may not be 'noticeable' in day to day life function for some people, yet others may show greater symptoms. Fatigue, change in sleep quality and amounts, general energy levels etc.
CNS function is a controlling factor in all human processes. So from a even just a purely body composition point of view two things that come to mind are protein synthesis and testosterone production. You get a downgrade in CNS function you also effectively get a downgrade in testosterone production and protein synthesis. The 2 main factors that training 'stimulates' on it's own! So I look at it as nearly defeating the purpose of training. Yes I realise that maybe a little over the top, but it takes away from your end results.
Typically caffeine is generally ok for long term use and in decent amounts (150-250mg a day is fine for most people). It is only when it is taken in excess can it have negative effects on CNS function. Something I normally don't focus on and can be taken daily without much problem.
Then there is the DMMA factor. The only structural difference between methylhexanamine and amphetamine is that methylhexanamine lacks the phenyl or benzene ring which is present in all phenethylamine derivatives, including all amphetamines, containing only 4 of the 6 carbons of the phenyl ring. The difference between geranamine and propylhexedrine is that is lacks two carbons that create a cyclohexyl ring in propylhexedrine and a methyl group on the amine group. Despite these differences, it has a similar mode of action, being a stimulant and having norepinephrinergic effects. Now that is an 'ingredient' that I do not suggest any of my clients use as it can cause larger and more profound negative effects in shorter periods of time. Daily intake is something I certainly would not suggest.
I hope that helps explain things
Your Stressed Out Nervous System May be Causing Your Blood Pressure to Rise
Nervous System - Human Brain | Buzzle.com
The autonomic nervous system
Testosterone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Protein biosynthesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Thanks for the comments, Max
MaxBrenner
New member
Touchy maybe, but it certainly is justified by the previous posts you have made that questions my morals as to why I'm a 'member' of this forum.
Yes as I said, SOME subjects are certainly not covered with credible information or sources in Wiki. As I explained though, the literature on the subjects at hand is validated on cross references and gives a better explanation that other sources I found.
Yes as I said, SOME subjects are certainly not covered with credible information or sources in Wiki. As I explained though, the literature on the subjects at hand is validated on cross references and gives a better explanation that other sources I found.
Shrek
Fucked up Kunce
You also accused Ausbb of deleting posts which never happened, perhaps you're the touchy one Morgan, perhaps??
What am I supposed to think when I can't find a post I know I made?
I made a post, I know submitted it, I came back and I couldn't find it, I don't have Alzheimers, if it's not there it's obviously been deleted.
I figured it out anyways, I made the post, changed my settings from 10 posts per page to 20 posts, and my post went from page 2 on the old setting to page one on the new setting, when I came back and checked page 2 it wasn't there.
I made a post, I know submitted it, I came back and I couldn't find it, I don't have Alzheimers, if it's not there it's obviously been deleted.
I figured it out anyways, I made the post, changed my settings from 10 posts per page to 20 posts, and my post went from page 2 on the old setting to page one on the new setting, when I came back and checked page 2 it wasn't there.
Antman
New member
Hey guys, I've seen a guy have jaundice and serious liver complications from too much OTC supps. I too have recently had elevated liver values, nothing serious but the 50 or so pills I was popping at the time PER DAY caused it to work hard.
I now take most of what I need from food and minimise supps as much as possible. Even shakes get the kick if I can get enough food.
So when is enough enough? when your liver shuts shop and you shit it out your arse.
If your ever worried about anything, get a CHECK UP. It shocked me, and im sure alot of guys are suffering similar without even knowing it, I had no idea anything was up.
I now take most of what I need from food and minimise supps as much as possible. Even shakes get the kick if I can get enough food.
So when is enough enough? when your liver shuts shop and you shit it out your arse.
If your ever worried about anything, get a CHECK UP. It shocked me, and im sure alot of guys are suffering similar without even knowing it, I had no idea anything was up.
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I have evolved my thoughts on this quite a bit over the years.
Originally a big supplement user than later a supplement sceptic (yes I can see the irony given my position), these days a bit more middle grounded.
Max, you are correct in that supplements aren't necessary at all. However I think for those interested in maximising their results as much as possible, particularly while adding a huge advantage in convenience and even value for money they can be a very sensible option.
Creatine is a good example to start with.
It seems that there is a large differential between the bodies typical storage levels of creatine which is gained through the diet (especially so vegatarians who eat no meat) and that which can be gained through creatine supplementation.
I can't quote any exact figures but from the research I have done the practicalites of getting to maximum creatine levels through meat would be very tough.
Regardless of your thoughts on creatine safety, trying to get enough creatine (to reach maximal levels) through meat could potentially mean a huge load on the kidneys (as it would be ridiculous amounts of protein) as well as a large caloric excess.
A sceptic could respond by saying that the body may not effectively utilise all of this creatine from supplementation anyway, which renders maximum levels a bit pointless, which I would disagree with.
Fish oil is another example. We have all no doubt seen the adverts which talks about how much fish oil is needed if your source was from consumig fish. Again impractical amounts, however with fish oil there is a large factor that is often ignored.
A large part of the reason why we need so much in the way of Omega 3's is that our diets are so crap and full of bad fats! If we reduce some of those then inflammatory problems wouldn't be such an issue and we may not even need to rebalance it with omega 3's from fish oil.
If nothiinbg else, the dose coudl surely be reduced.
Protein powder is an interesting one too.
I am a big supporter of protein powder not just because we sell it. If the desire is to have large amounts of protein, spread evenly through the day, getting this from foods becomes very impartical.
In terms of value for money, flavoured WPC at less than $20 a kg really does represent great value for money, in fact in many cases this is much more economical than getting it from meats, eggs and other foods. Canned tuns comes close but I know what I would rather eat in a hurry.
I think the benefits of supplement use should be focussed on conveniences more than anything else. Keep in mind though many diets are often bad due to too much of an emphasis on convenience (just think takeaway food) so supplements should only be added on what is already a good diet plan.
Another thing that many people to fail to do by adding a lot of supps at the same time is to effectively gauge the benefits of each. If you add one supp to your regime at any one time you can properly assess its benefits and then gauge whether you have had an advantage from it before adding another one.
Originally a big supplement user than later a supplement sceptic (yes I can see the irony given my position), these days a bit more middle grounded.
Max, you are correct in that supplements aren't necessary at all. However I think for those interested in maximising their results as much as possible, particularly while adding a huge advantage in convenience and even value for money they can be a very sensible option.
Creatine is a good example to start with.
It seems that there is a large differential between the bodies typical storage levels of creatine which is gained through the diet (especially so vegatarians who eat no meat) and that which can be gained through creatine supplementation.
I can't quote any exact figures but from the research I have done the practicalites of getting to maximum creatine levels through meat would be very tough.
Regardless of your thoughts on creatine safety, trying to get enough creatine (to reach maximal levels) through meat could potentially mean a huge load on the kidneys (as it would be ridiculous amounts of protein) as well as a large caloric excess.
A sceptic could respond by saying that the body may not effectively utilise all of this creatine from supplementation anyway, which renders maximum levels a bit pointless, which I would disagree with.
Fish oil is another example. We have all no doubt seen the adverts which talks about how much fish oil is needed if your source was from consumig fish. Again impractical amounts, however with fish oil there is a large factor that is often ignored.
A large part of the reason why we need so much in the way of Omega 3's is that our diets are so crap and full of bad fats! If we reduce some of those then inflammatory problems wouldn't be such an issue and we may not even need to rebalance it with omega 3's from fish oil.
If nothiinbg else, the dose coudl surely be reduced.
Protein powder is an interesting one too.
I am a big supporter of protein powder not just because we sell it. If the desire is to have large amounts of protein, spread evenly through the day, getting this from foods becomes very impartical.
In terms of value for money, flavoured WPC at less than $20 a kg really does represent great value for money, in fact in many cases this is much more economical than getting it from meats, eggs and other foods. Canned tuns comes close but I know what I would rather eat in a hurry.
I think the benefits of supplement use should be focussed on conveniences more than anything else. Keep in mind though many diets are often bad due to too much of an emphasis on convenience (just think takeaway food) so supplements should only be added on what is already a good diet plan.
Another thing that many people to fail to do by adding a lot of supps at the same time is to effectively gauge the benefits of each. If you add one supp to your regime at any one time you can properly assess its benefits and then gauge whether you have had an advantage from it before adding another one.
MaxBrenner
New member
Bioflex, Thanks for backing up my thoughts 
It is especially refreshing coming from someone in your position as there are not to many others, who like I, use common sense.
It is especially refreshing coming from someone in your position as there are not to many others, who like I, use common sense.
Nikko
Food Lovin' Kuncet
Bioflex, Thanks for backing up my thoughts
They do say common sense
aint so common