The Truth About Bodybuilding Genetics

[haz]

nice discussion, but im not sure we're getting anywhere.

some thoughts
the issue with genetics is that it influences the effect of training and diet. problems happens because people like to compare, which cant really be done because genetics are different. its important that these people don't get discouraged when they aren't getting the results of their friend or a bodybuilder/powerlifter, even when they are trying hard. results will come but slower, and following the same program based on the success of another lifter is a hit and miss game, but i believe that you should try as many methods as possible and note the results so that your program is personal.

also there is an issue when people who are genetically gifted don't understand how hard it is for those that aren't, and sometimes don't give the best advice. these people may not have much knowledge or skill but are simply better because of their genetics. the biggest guy in the gym hasn't had to struggle for every kilo, like the skinny lanky guy. and the big guys advice to the skinny guy will probably be incorrect for the skinny guy but works well for himself.

people associate results with knowledge
or results with programming

two mistake that affect us all. but i think its natural.

two guys, one deadlifts 250kg after his year of training, while another guy manages 250kg in 5 years. who would you ask/or listen to for advice to get to 250kg?
And whose program would you do? (no real right or wrong answer, but it gets you thinking.)

 

[pistachio]

And whose program would you do? (no real right or wrong answer, but it gets you thinking.)

If i was offered advice from a 100kg ripped guy after one year of training or a 95kg lean guy after 5 years of training who used to be skinny as fuck, i sure as hell would listen to the 95kg guy.

As you mentioned, ppl who are genetically gifted often don't realise that most people can't just do any old program and grow.

Another thing that really shits me is how once you reach a certain size/weight, ppl think you are either genetically gifted or on juice. A lot of the time it might be true, but it sure as hell pisses you off when it ain't. I don't mind being accused of being on juice (take it as a complement), but when people assume i must be 'naturally' big it pisses me right off.

They assume I mustn't have to put in much effort cos one of their friends is my size and only hits the gym once a month or so.

 

[Veritas Blue]

Whilst it's true that genetics play a major role, for e.g. some people are good at endurance running and others at sprinting, (I'm a sprinter, I was always piss poor with my endurance) it can all be achieved with training!

Some people do have to work harder than others, and reallistically, the only "limit" is that of your mind. One of the world's strongest women, Jill Mills, said it took her one year to bench press 60kg! Without any training I could easily bench press 60kg the first time I started at a gym! Now, she's in the 200kg+ bench pressing region.

She didn't give up "just because she was a woman" or blame genetics. Different people's bodies react differently, and undoubtedly she would have struggled more than most guys because a woman's muscular makeup and ability to gain is quite different from a man's.

It's ultimately all about hard work.

Finally, I think the people who lost muscle mass according to the research article whilst training must have been under the wrong conditions, losing muscle mass over time whilst training is probably due to poor a training cycle for their body type. Not all training cycles work the same for everyone.

 

[Oli]

If I said I wanted to play rugby for Australia would you see that as a realistic goal veritas? even if i promised to 'train real hard'?

 

[Kyle Aaron]

Well, it's not like you are 75yo and arthritic or something, so it's not an impossible goal. It is a very difficult goal.

Really you'd just have to try it and see.

It's like in my PT thread, I remember telling the story of Gibbo, who in the goal setting class said, "I'd like to be the heavyweight UFC champion."
"And what would be your first step towards that goal?"
"Well, I'd have to start fighting."

Now, Gibbo was just taking the piss. But it does demonstrate that even extremely ambitious goals have some pretty simple steps to them, steps that can be mini-goals on the way to the big ones.

It's alright to go for very difficult goals, just realise that you may have to achieve many small goals along the way. If you want to play rugby for Australia, begin by playing rugby for a social team. Then a local team. Then state, and so on. Will you ever play rugby for Australia? I don't know. I do know that you won't play rugby for Australia unless you start playing rugby today.

And that comes back to my original point about the "genetics" of this stuff. Sure, we have genetic limits, some are high, some low. But we don't know what those limits are until we try. Whether you play rugby for Australia or not, if you work towards playing rugby for Australia, you will be a better rugby player than you are today.

You don't know your limits until you move up against them. So get moving.

 

[Christian]

Measure your dick if its longer then 6" erect then you have potential Over 8" erect then youll be a monster

Below 5.5" your average

Less then 4" youll have problems..

Penis size is directly related to secondary sexual characteristics of males.. We know "womenly women" have big tits and nice bums with good hips...

We know "manly men" have big dicks chisel jaws and wide shoulders...

For example africans have higher testosterone levels then their white counterparts, everyone knows that black men have a larger average penis length and girth. Then whites then asians.

There are many aspects to this but it is also the expression of sex hormones. THe best sprinters and a large number of athletes are of african decent.

Why? Maybe western society has been exposed for longer to a "being lazy do nothing chemical exposed" lifestyle.

Who knows point is there is a difference...

I used to frequent the gym with someone who had no training experience they exploded i thought they were on juice they claimed not to be just a pure novice. One day the towel dropped (no homo) how could that person not have good gentic :|

Im not saying everything is down to sex hormones or genetics. Naturally you need work and other aspects but they sure do make a large portion of the pie.

 

[Veritas Blue]

If I said I wanted to play rugby for Australia would you see that as a realistic goal veritas? even if i promised to 'train real hard'?

This pretty much proves the point I made on mindset. I understand the implication that your question has raised, in your own mind you've set something impossible for you, and posed the question to me. So yes, in that sense it will never be a realistic goal for you.

Of course there are some obvious limitations, for e.g. if you're 75 years old and are likely to die from straining yourself then it's not very realistic. But as a healthy young male, nothing will stop you if you train real hard.

I wonder how many people told Jill Mills that realistically she could never bench press 200kg+ because she was a woman.

To see an example of more of the impossible being achieved just take a look at some of the training regimes of SAS personnel. Bodybuilding and Ronnie Coleman is one thing, but fitness barriers of the SAS blokes far exceed anything you'll find in any civilian competition.

It's honestly, all in your mindset, perserverance when things go shitty.

 

[tat maytals]

lol, I've heard a fair few nrl players you would call naturally gifted aren't sporting much downstairs. Including the ones that aren't white. Same story goes for the nba, its supposedly quite surprising.

What was it eddie murphy said? something along the lines of white guys making up the myth and then being the most concerned about it? lol

I think if your concerned with penis size you are a fuckwit and you're wasting time and energy you could be using to get better at something.

 

[Veritas Blue]

Measure your dick if its longer then 6" erect then you have potential Over 8" erect then youll be a monster

Below 5.5" your average

Less then 4" youll have problems..

Penis size is directly related to secondary sexual characteristics of males.. We know "womenly women" have big tits and nice bums with good hips...

We know "manly men" have big dicks chisel jaws and wide shoulders...

For example africans have higher testosterone levels then their white counterparts, everyone knows that black men have a larger average penis length and girth. Then whites then asians.

There are many aspects to this but it is also the expression of sex hormones. THe best sprinters and a large number of athletes are of african decent.

Why? Maybe western society has been exposed for longer to a "being lazy do nothing chemical exposed" lifestyle.

Who knows point is there is a difference...

I used to frequent the gym with someone who had no training experience they exploded i thought they were on juice they claimed not to be just a pure novice. One day the towel dropped (no homo) how could that person not have good gentic :|

Im not saying everything is down to sex hormones or genetics. Naturally you need work and other aspects but they sure do make a large portion of the pie.

I don't know how true some of the points you raised in your little essay are or not, but wtf man -penis size, manly men, womenly women, sprinters and then gym and genetics.

Fucking awesome, I hope you make it as an article writer one day, honestly. Just imagine the newspaper headlines

And no, none of your points really made sense with the larger aspect of this thread except for the part about the gym =\

 

[Christian]

lol, i've heard a fair few nrl players you would call naturally gifted aren't sporting much downstairs. Including the ones that aren't white. Same story goes for the nba, its supposedly quite surprising.

What was it eddie murphy said? Something along the lines of white guys making up the myth and then being the most concerned about it? Lol

i think if your concerned with penis size you are a fuckwit and you're wasting time and energy you could be using to get better at something.

Yuk..farken

 

[Veritas Blue]

Honestly...

At least put a caution on what you're posting up, some of us could be at work or next to MUM when they open it.

 

[Christian]

Honestly...

At least put a caution on what you're posting up, some of us could be at work or next to MUM when they open it.

was suposed t say nsfw woopzy

 

[Oli]

Something I notice is that everyone who pulls the 'little train that could' line is usually a beginner. You don't have to be in this sport long to realise most people wont end up ronnie coleman huge.

Am I saying you cant squat 320? no. Am I saying you cant get to a shredded 90? no. But if your goal is what most peoples are on bb.com (insert Ulisses Jr pic) then you're likely destined for disappointment.

I think telling people how it is is a positive experience, at least in the long term. They can stop focusing on unrealistic expectations and focus on the next 10kg on their bench or lose 1-2% bodyfat.

Guys in MensFitness too small for you? try getting there first buba.

 

[Veritas Blue]

Something I notice is that everyone who pulls the 'little train that could' line is usually a beginner. You don't have to be in this sport long to realise most people wont end up ronnie coleman huge.

Am I saying you cant squat 320? no. Am I saying you cant get to a shredded 90? no. But if your goal is what most peoples are on bb.com (insert Ulisses Jr pic) then you're likely destined for disappointment.

I think telling people how it is is a positive experience, at least in the long term. They can stop focusing on unrealistic expectations and focus on the next 10kg on their bench or lose 1-2% bodyfat.

Guys in MensFitness too small for you? try getting there first buba.

Way to completely deviate from the topic. Not only is one making random jabs in the dark hoping to stick it somewhere, but there's a fair few points that are veering way off course.

I'm not going to indulge, I'm sure you're smart enough to work out where the red herrings are.

Whether you want to contest the point that it's all in the mind is up to you, it's not something I've made up, nor is it a new-age philosophy. Those who perservere and don't make up excuses eventually make it, those are the few like Coleman, or the members of the Rugby team, or the Special Forces units. The rest want to argue about it.

Good luck.

 

[Oli]

Whether you want to contest the point that it's all in the mind is up to you, it's not something I've made up, nor is it a new-age philosophy. Those who perservere and don't make up excuses eventually make it, those are the few like Coleman, or the members of the Rugby team, or the Special Forces units. The rest want to argue about it.

Good luck.

Okay. When you're a big 125kg and ripped make sure you do a comeback thread with pics Mr Veritas.

 

[Goosey]

This thread is irritating me.

This topic is, I think... For those interested in pursuing a career in the bodybuilding pageant Dias....


There seems to be confusion as to the definition between muscular size and strength, results from current standards for bodybuilding competition add to this…and at least part of this confusion also stems from the fact that competitive weightlifters would more often than not- not have a physique of a bodybuilder.

Having a look around a gym or on a particular sporting event I have made some observations.

A few bodybuilders are very strong… but few of them demonstrate a level of strength in proportion to their size, muscular size…and some of these bodybuilders are actually quite weak when consideration is given to their muscular mass.

This weakness has nothing to do with their quality of their mass, like those of anybody else, are strong in proportion to their size; poor leverages or some other factor makes it impossible to transmit a high amount of their muscular strength to their limbs… they have a very powerful engine and a poor transmission, in that they can produce the power but cant use much of it.

Wide shoulders, narrow hip, long legs and short torso and greater than average mass could easily become a successful bodybuilder, he may look strong, but his strength will not be in proportion to his appearance of strength, but those proportions will have a pleasant appearance by today’s standards.

In contrast, a competitive weightlifter may not appear to have much more than an average amount of mass, but able to demonstrate much strength, we’d be looking at narrow shoulder girdle, thick waist, wide hip, short legs and a proportionality long torso.the requirement for building great strength, but more often than not pleasing to the eye.

Bodybuilders and weightlifters have grown apart more than any period in time, especially if you spend time on forums, you see constant chest banging and although we all use the same tool (the barbell) which we should and usually perform the same exercise, which we should, I think the separation is due to natural selection, the type I described simply do not have the ability to demonstrate strength and men with the potential to build great strength more often than not have the type of physique to enter a body building contest.

Usually after a short period of time and relating to Markos’s 5 year post, an individual will be forced in one direction or another.

If strength increases rapidly with little increase in muscle mass then he will be encouraged to turn his interest to so-called competitive weightlifting…but if his mass increases out of proportion to his strength, then he’ll most likely see himself as a body-builder.

I was looking at a doco and thought this;
Draft horses are built for power, race horses are built for speed, we fall into the similar category.

You can increase the muscular mass of the draft horse and you’ll make it stronger and faster, but it will never make it as fast as a good race horse.

You can increase the muscular mass of the race horse…it will also make the horse stronger and faster, but it will never be as strong as the draft horse.

 

[Christian]

^^^ and you can't make the retarded runt either.

 

[PowerBuilder]

Draft horses are built for power, race horses are built for speed, we fall into the similar category.

You can increase the muscular mass of the draft horse and you’ll make it stronger and faster, but it will never make it as fast as a good race horse.

You can increase the muscular mass of the race horse…it will also make the horse stronger and faster, but it will never be as strong as the draft horse.

that really is a wonderful analogy. Thanks Andy.

 

[Iron Alliance]

Way to completely deviate from the topic etc etc...

Generalised response was generalised. I see no fish, sticks or what ever metaphore being used as a put down.

In regards to genetics in the context of Bodybuilding: If you want to be a pro, you'll need them. Mariusz has a great physique and is a phenominal athlete, would he do well or make it as a bodybuilding pro? No. Despite being well put together and very lean for someone of his size the genetic build of his muscle inserts are ugly as fuck from a BB perspective. He's way too blocky. Using an example of a pro, Markus Rhule. A stupidly immense man and still had the ability to get into good condition. Why was he never a top placer? Genetics. Comparitively, he had a complete lack of tricep and in general, a very blocky physique. It's just how he was pre-disposed to be.

Genetics in Bodybuilding play a huge role. No matter how hard you train, what you use, you can't change how your muscle bellies tie in.

 

[Goosey]

that really is a wonderful analogy. Thanks Andy.

No problem PB.