Take your studies and shove them up your ass

[Figjam Brah]

Hmm interesting, but a fairly short term study. I'm assuming all those 'C:XX:X' are the chemical codes or whatever?

French fries are one of the worst tasting things I've ever had lol.. Still going to avoid them lol.

Joel, this is real life, but:

BRB prepping a meal its been 3 hours..

Can't hear you over the clashing of the e z curl bar in the squat racks

 

[MaxBrenner]

Hormonal Responses to a Fast-Food Meal Compared with Nutritionally Comparable Meals of Different Composition – Research Review | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

Lyle's review of the study. Below is his summary -

This study basically backs up what I’ve been saying for years: a single fast food meal, within the context of a calorie controlled diet, is not death on a plate. It won’t destroy your diet and it won’t make you immediately turn into a big fat pile of blubber. And, frankly, this can be predicted on basic physiology (in terms of nutrient digestion) alone. It’s just nice to see it verified in a controlled setting.
It’s not uncommon for the physique obsessed to literally become social pariahs, afraid to eat out because eating out is somehow defined as ‘unclean’ (never mind that a grilled chicken breast eaten out is fundamentally no different than a grilled chicken breast cooked at home) and fast food is, of course, the death of any diet. This is in addition to the fact that apparently eating fast food makes you morally inferior as well. Well, that’s what bodybuilders and other orthorexics will tell you anyhow.
Except that it’s clearly not. Given caloric control, the body’s response to a given set of nutrients, with the exception of blood lipids would appear to be more determined by the total caloric and macro content of that meal more than the source of the food.
In terms of the hormonal response, clean vs. unclean just doesn’t matter, it’s all about calories and macros.
Which is what I’ve been saying all along.

 

[dave]

In Joel defence calling him a squat rack curler is going a bit too far he is a former junior powerlifter and pretty darn good bencher. His point was you said you stay away from sugary stuff but then said you had lots of ice cream which has lots of added sugar.

 

[Figjam Brah]

I don't view Ice cream as necessarily 'bad' food. While something like a pie I would rarely eat as it has very poor ingredients.

Or a Chicken burger I would eat, but avoid the burgers with beef in them. As the beef burgers generally cooked with more 'crap'.

Guess thats how I see it.

 

[Christian]

Hormonal Responses to a Fast-Food Meal Compared with Nutritionally Comparable Meals of Different Composition – Research Review | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

Lyle's review of the study. Below is his summary -

This study basically backs up what I’ve been saying for years: a single fast food meal, within the context of a calorie controlled diet, is not death on a plate. It won’t destroy your diet and it won’t make you immediately turn into a big fat pile of blubber. And, frankly, this can be predicted on basic physiology (in terms of nutrient digestion) alone. It’s just nice to see it verified in a controlled setting.
It’s not uncommon for the physique obsessed to literally become social pariahs, afraid to eat out because eating out is somehow defined as ‘unclean’ (never mind that a grilled chicken breast eaten out is fundamentally no different than a grilled chicken breast cooked at home) and fast food is, of course, the death of any diet. This is in addition to the fact that apparently eating fast food makes you morally inferior as well. Well, that’s what bodybuilders and other orthorexics will tell you anyhow.
Except that it’s clearly not. Given caloric control, the body’s response to a given set of nutrients, with the exception of blood lipids would appear to be more determined by the total caloric and macro content of that meal more than the source of the food.
In terms of the hormonal response, clean vs. unclean just doesn’t matter, it’s all about calories and macros.
Which is what I’ve been saying all along.

I have to say though with everything being true. Clean freak is a great discipline builder, something that the public lacks with eating that gets them in trouble...

As a former cleanoholic I can admit that I personally feel it was character building and has now allowed me more control over previous food problems i have had.

Though, i do want to put forth again that the general population has impulse control and certain foods allowances can get them off the wagon so to speak.
While there is no doubt that it is 'bad' per say neither is a beer here nor there, but it can be death to an alcoholic...

I hope that makes sense. i.e different approaches are needed for different people and its not all based on macronutrients. ( MB i know thats know that they are 2 different things, what i have said and what you are putting forth but everything even a fitball has a place).

 

[Andreww]

I don't view Ice cream as necessarily 'bad' food. While something like a pie I would rarely eat as it has very poor ingredients.

Or a Chicken burger I would eat, but avoid the burgers with beef in them. As the beef burgers generally cooked with more 'crap'.

Guess thats how I see it.

 

[Bazza20]

Agree with that Christian. Some foods used to set me off on a week or longer food bender.

Eating very clean for a long time does give you the confidence that you can flow a plan.

Now I have a lot more control and really enjoy a bit of dessert most nights within my macros.

 

[MaxBrenner]

I do agree with you on those points Christian (even on the fitball )

The only thing I'd like to add (as it has been done to death) is that some people think/feel like they need to eat 'clean' and it is based on mis-guided reasons I.E the big guy told me or that is what Arnold did etc. When that is the reason behind it, typically they are doing/following a number of other pseudo-science protocols and wondering why they are not getting anywhere. Other than that eating clean 100% of the time is of personal preference.

I'm simply putting the basic fundamentals out there, so people get the full story and make an informed choice so hopefully it allows them to get to their goals in the most effective way

 

[Rugby88]

Hmm interesting, but a fairly short term study. I'm assuming all those 'C:XX:X' are the chemical codes or whatever?

French fries are one of the worst tasting things I've ever had lol.. Still going to avoid them lol.

Joel, this is real life, but:

BRB prepping a meal its been 3 hours..

Can't hear you over the clashing of the e z curl bar in the squat racks

lol righto.

 

[tat maytals]

From MB post:

Body composition is determined by (apart from training) consuming the appropriate calorie intake and meeting minimum macronutirent requirements. Meal type, food type, meal frequency and meal timing play NO PART in body composition.

So depending on what your goal is you need to know what the appropriate calorie intake is. That will determine how much you can eat. Once the calorie requirements have been calculated, the next important part is ensuring you are consuming adequate macronutirents (protein, fat and carbohydrate) and micronutrients (vitamins and minerals) to support your goals, training requirements, hormonal and metabolic functions.


Serious question, without lame online inaccurate calculators or some expensive test from a Dr. how do you determine:
- the appropriate calorie intake
- Adequate macro and micro needs

 

[Christian]

From MB post:

Body composition is determined by (apart from training) consuming the appropriate calorie intake and meeting minimum macronutirent requirements. Meal type, food type, meal frequency and meal timing play NO PART in body composition.

So depending on what your goal is you need to know what the appropriate calorie intake is. That will determine how much you can eat. Once the calorie requirements have been calculated, the next important part is ensuring you are consuming adequate macronutirents (protein, fat and carbohydrate) and micronutrients (vitamins and minerals) to support your goals, training requirements, hormonal and metabolic functions.


Serious question, without lame online inaccurate calculators or some expensive test from a Dr. how do you determine:
- the appropriate calorie intake
- Adequate macro and micro needs

Trial and error...

There are some methods better then others i.e calculators based of scientific formulas.

Most accurate way would be to get a dexa scan and work from that.

Macro and mico needs will be determined by you, your needs your exercise and your current state of health.

 

[oldcorollas]

record your food and exercise as it is for a few weeks and see what happens to your weight. (no better place to start than where you are now...)

then control your food to some level (deficit or surplus, depending on your goals) for a few weeks and see what happens to your weight.

you'll find a range within which not much happens.

re: macro/micro, Emma-leighs post is maybe a good place to start?
anything in excess of the minimum of each macronutirent will probably be burned as energy anyway, so the exact ratios are probably not that critical... as long as you meet the minimums?

 

[tat maytals]

record your food and exercise as it is for a few weeks and see what happens to your weight. (no better place to start than where you are now...)

then control your food to some level (deficit or surplus, depending on your goals) for a few weeks and see what happens to your weight.

you'll find a range within which not much happens.

re: macro/micro, Emma-leighs post is maybe a good place to start?
anything in excess of the minimum of each macronutirent will probably be burned as energy anyway, so the exact ratios are probably not that critical... as long as you meet the minimums?

Thanks for this.

I checked it out and followed the calculations etc. I estimated my bf% at 25%.

Anyway it worked out my TEE to 2863.5
This lead to my macro nutrients being the following:

Protein 209 g 836 calories
Fat 71.25 g 641.25 calories
Carbs 346.56 g 1386.25 calories

This can't be right can it?
That's not even a kg of food per day to maintain a TEE of almost 3000...

 

[dave]

Thanks for this.

I checked it out and followed the calculations etc. I estimated my bf% at 25%.

Anyway it worked out my TEE to 2863.5
This lead to my macro nutrients being the following:

Protein 209 g 836 calories
Fat 71.25 g 641.25 calories
Carbs 346.56 g 1386.25 calories

This can't be right can it?
That's not even a kg of food per day to maintain a TEE of almost 3000...

Don't forget all the other stuff that is not a macro such as water etc

 

[MaxBrenner]

Serious question, without lame online inaccurate calculators or some expensive test from a Dr. how do you determine:
- the appropriate calorie intake
- Adequate macro and micro needs

Wow I've been quoted

As the others have mentioned, there will be some trial and error involved.

With your calorie intake, the online calculators etc are simply there to give you an estimate and a ball park figure. So pick an equation and start of at the 'maintenance' caloric intake and then adjust it as needed after 2 weeks.

With determining you marconutrient, as mentioned it is dependent on you, your goals etc. Emma-leigh's site has all the information you could need in working out what your macro's and calorie intake.