Aye ^
I've always said the only 'machine' I would ever have in my gym is a lat pulldow/seated row combo (or some form of row machine).
Simply because from my own experience concentrating on getting popular retraction is hard enough, let alone when you're worrying about balancing with the weight etc.
Dave would you suggest using a wider grip on the rows as opposed to a closer grip? Or will retraction be largely the same in both?
I still think a beginner would make better progressing doing chins than rows
People performing an exercise with shitty form isn't a reason for not doing it and doing another exercise instead
Cool figured as much, I typically do them (when I'm in a commercial gym obviously) with the same width grip as bench
@ Oni: LOL so you'd prefer them to do it with shitty form? Over doing another exercise, which could be argued as being more beneficial for overall muscle/joint health, properly?
Ah yeah it is (dependant on degree of shittyness). Either you reduce loading and correct from and progress from their or you do something similar that can be done properly and work up to the other exercise. I am no super form Nazi like some people I work with but there are limits.
What if they can't perform correct squat form with a broomstick?
And there is more to performing a pull up correctly than just pulling yourself up to the bar
Then they practice with the stick until they can do it. I found out today that I can't do a single overhead squat with the bar so instead of being an idiot and loading the snatch I'm just going to work on flexibility until I can perform the overhead squat with a broomstick perfectly then move onto the bar. I think perfect form is the enemy of the trainee if you get me but it should be correct before it starts to be loaded in ANY exercise
The boldest is basically the same as what both myself and Dave have suggested - progressing from a less technical lift to the 'goal' lift.
In your case overhead squats into snatch.
In the case of pull ups, seated row/lat pulldown, then DB/BB rows then pull ups (as an example).
As for squats, you have goblet and box squats progressing into back squats.
That makes me curious Oni, I've never tried a OH squat in my life and I know they are hard, but I'm sure I can do one with the bar. I'm pretty sure I should be able to get one with 40kg. This will be a fun experiment.
I'm sorry but I don't see how lat pulldowns or bb rows are good progressions to pull-ups. Maybe in the case of capn 400lbs it would be way easier to do lat pulldowns instead of chins but I don't see the point in changing the entire routine for 1% of the population who can't do a controlled negative
How would it be hard to make the lift explosive?
That's like saying a hang clean isn't explosive because it isn't done from the floor.
All those options do not allow the focus of a cable row for someone with poor retraction. Though I would use assisOted Pullups in the program as well.
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