Thanks for the replies boys (the constructive ones anyway) seems maybe i'll give glucosamine and fish oil a go might be the cost effective solution, anwering bricks question I have some work to do as far as squats and deadlifts go I avoided squats for ages because my arse seems to respond to squats far too well and was sick of getting called beyonce and tearing my pants haha but my best deadlift is 180 so far, I agree with Bazza 100% I know plenty of guys even in their early 20's with little nagging problems if you can go from lifting your first weight to years later without ANY issues you're either the man of steel or not pushing hard enough telling people to quit just because their shoulders get a bit sore sometimes is just silly and poor advice imo