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Protein = Kidney problems?


if pointing out your misinformation is called stirring shit then so be it
not sure why that quote is aimed at me?
you should take your own advice and research before you make claims such as "There is some evidence that more than 2.5g protein per kg bodyweight can lead to kidney problems"

feel free to search through my posts (all 36 of them!) and point out anything i've said which is wrong
its called constructive criticism

anyway, the topic starter has his question answered
so i will not post in this thread again
 
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The only thing I can see wrong with upg`s post is that it wasn`t very tactful.
You could have worded it a bit softer mate but all you guys calling him a troll and an internet heavy is just as bad as what you are accusing him of.
I`vs had pretty strong debates with 2 on here and even though we strongly disagreed with each other it never went to name calling and at the end of it all we agreed to disagree and still respect each other.
Grow up.
 
Interesting. Doesn't add much, though. He says,
"If you want to lose fat, more protein is crucial — at least a half-gram of protein per pound of body weight per day.

[...] fewer than 40 percent of your total daily calories from carbohydrates

[...] If you have a lot of fat to lose, and your goal is a dramatic change in your body composition, research shows you should have at least two-thirds of a gram of protein per pound per day [...] At worst, you should never consume more than 1.5 grams of carbs for every gram of protein.

For serious lifters and competitive strength athletes [...] just under a gram of protein per pound per day."

That translates to,
  • For beginners losing some fat and gaining muscle, 0.5g/lb, or 1.1g/kg BW
  • For beginners losing lots of fat and gaining muscle, 0.67g/lb, or 1.5g protein/kg BW, and not more than 1.5g carb/kg BW
  • For advanced athletes, 1g/lb, or 2.2g protein/kg
Which is pretty much what the AIS told us above.
 
Putting it into ExRx.net's strength standards, things appear to be like this:-

Untrained - Expected level of strength in a healthy individual who has not trained on the exercise before but can performit correctly. This represents the minimum level of strength required to maintain a reasonable quality of life in a sedentary individual. Achieved with 0.75g protein / kg bodyweight

Novice - A person training regularly for a period of 3-9 months. This strength level supports the demands of vigorous recreational activities. Achieved with 1g/kg, and a calorie surplus when gaining muscle, and low carbs when losing fat.

Intermediate- A person who has engaged in regular training for up to two years. The intermediate level indicates some degree of specialization in the exercises and a high level of performance at the recreational level. Achieved with 1.5-2.0g/kg, and a calorie surplus when gaining muscle, and low carbs when losing fat.

Advanced - An individual with multi-year training experience with definite goals in the higher levels of competitive athletics. Specialist diet

Elite - Refers specifically to athletes competing in strength sports. Less than 1% of the weight training population will attain this level. Specialist diet

The "specialist diet" refers to things like cutting and bulking phases, supplements, and so on. Exactly which depends on the sport. But few of us discussing things on forums will be beyond intermediate...
 
For serious lifters and competitive strength athletes [...] just under a gram of protein per pound per day."
its not suggesting that at all.

you need to read the article again paying closer attention to the last couple of charts where the authors recommendation of protein intake for certain levels of training is shown.
 


are the italics your additions to the quote? i cant see them on the website


edit: i can see that they are, whats your point in this post?
 
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To be honest though you could argue about protein requirements until the cows come home. i know how much i'll be consuming though
 
Yes, the italicised bits are mine. As I said, I'm trying to take all the different info and put it together in a clear and simple form. Between the science and the broscience, there's a bit too much information for most of us.

you need to read the article again paying closer attention to the last couple of charts where the authors recommendation of protein intake for certain levels of training is shown.
Actually, you need to read the article. What I wrote,

"For serious lifters and competitive strength athletes [...] just under a gram of protein per pound per day."​

was a quote from the article. Quotes are often indicated by indentation and/or different font/colour. The full quote,

"For serious lifters and competitive strength athletes, we have to bump up the protein.

"The International Society of Sports Nutrition, in a 2007 position statement, concluded that bodybuilders and strength/power athletes require just under a gram of protein per pound per day. "​

I omitted only his source.

His first chart isn't about protein requirements specifically, but branched chain amino acids (the building blocks of proteins). "T-Nation adults" are given the highest recommended dose, at 240.2mg/kg daily. That is, less than a quarter of a gram per kilogram of bodyweight, or about one-eighth the total protein consumption recommended for "serious lifters and competitive strength athletes".

How did he reach those estimates?

"More sophisticated estimates of protein requirements suggest that you can break it down in terms of individual essential amino acids ("essential" means your body can't make them from other amino acids in your diet). I've done that in the following chart, adding 40 percent to the totals for regular folks to estimate how much T-Nation readers need to reach their goal of improved body composition."

What's his basis for adding 40%? Unlike everything he's said before then, he gives no scientific reference, nor does he mention personal experience, or experience with people's counselled. In other words, he just said, "seems about right" - he made it up.

Anyway, it's only a small part of all protein requirements, and really he's just saying you should eat a variety of foods. Yep, we know.

His highest recommended total protein comes in here,

"High intensity or pre-competition

"You're in serious training, possibly preparing for a bodybuilding contest or some other competition that requires peak performance.

You need 1.36 grams of protein per pound of body weight per day."​
1.36g/lb is 3g/kg. Again, he doesn't give us a source for this - it seems this is his arbitrary extra 40% he mentioned earlier. 2g, 3g, a big difference? Well, it'll make a difference in your grocery or protein powder bill - 1g/kg will be 60-120g protein for most people, which is a big chicken breast daily, or several scoops of protein powder.

Well, this also goes against what the AIS says. They say 2g/kg is the most anyone should bother with. Who to believe? Well, he doesn't explain his 40% extra, so I'd say that's a strike against him. The AIS has produced a heap of gold medal winners, so I'd say that's a tick in their favour. Could there be anything else behind his ideas?

Well, he's writing on T-Nation, and says,
"A serving of Metabolic Drive, for example, contains 20 grams of protein, about 9 of which are essential amino acids."

Metabolic Drive? What's that? Why, that's a product sold at T-Nation. What an amazing coincidence. An article on a commercial website recommends under the name of someone with a degree that you consume lots of stuff which they just happen to sell.

And if you google around for this Chris Lockwood, you find he's the Muscle & Fitness editor, shilling supplements in 2005. He describes himself as being "in charge of and revitalizing the ABB/Science Foods sports nutrition brands."

The editor of a magazine which relies on advertising from supplements manufacturers, and who himself promotes supplements, tell us that we need more supplements?

Hmmm. So, we've got
  • one guy who doesn't describe all his sources and reasoning, and who has a financial interest in pumping up how much supplements we consume, who says intermediates/advanced need 3g/kg;
  • and then we have an institute who describe all their sources, and who have no interest in downplaying how much we need to consume, who say intermediates/advanced need 2g/kg

Weighing it up, I reckon I'll go with the AIS on this one.

2g protein per kilogram of bodyweight is the most anyone up to intermediate level needs to gain lean mass.

But hey, if the guys who helped produce a shitload of gold medals ain't good enough for you, I don't know what is. Go ahead, write and tell them they're idiots.
 
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To be honest though you could argue about protein requirements until the cows come home. i know how much i'll be consuming though
Yeah, people are like that.

The other day I was talking to a woman, not obese or overweight, just unfit, she said, "I want to lose weight." I said, "don't worry about weight, worry about the sort of figure you want, should it be more muscle, less fat or what." She said, "I want to weigh less."

I said, "Look, your weight is not that important. Look." I showed her these two pictures:


Less than 1kg of difference in weight, but a big difference in appearance. She said, "Okay, I see what you mean, but I still want to lose weight."

I asked her if the second was the sort of body she was after. "Yes," she replied.
"Then you'll have to do some heavy weights."
"But I don't want to bulk up."
"This woman did heavy weights, you can look at her workout journal. She didn't bulk up."
"Yeah I see what you mean, but I don't want to bulk up."

People are very attached to their misconceptions about diet and exercise. So no, I don't expect you to change your behaviour. I'll bet the butcher and health food shop owners are your bestest buddies
 
i started digging up some further articles on high protein diets but considered whats the point? he has his AIS source which he believes in and i have my sources which i believe in. im not trying to prove AIS wrong that would be stupid, im just trying to post some alternative articles to spark some debate, believe me you arent the first person to poke holes in a T-nation article . My beliefs are based off real life evidence that i have experienced and witnessed, i started out taking around 2 grams of protein per kg and eating an excess of calories (around 5-700 over maintenance). i made some changes to my physique but my strength plateaued quite quickly and for months and months i was stuck with the pissweak 1rm lifts @ 81kg's of:

Bench: 70kg
Military: 47.5kg
Deadlift: 110kg
Powerclean: 60kg
Squat: 75kg

3 months ago after a layoff of around 3-4 months i started over and doubled my protein intake to 3.5-4 grams per kg and continued eating at an excess of around 4-500 calories (last time i felt i gained too much fat). this time there was no plateau, im now leaner and stronger, my current 1rm lifts @ 77.5kg's are:

Bench: 85kg
Military: 55kg
Deadlift: 160kg
Powerclean: 75kg
Squat: 100kg

i hit a new PB on at least one of these lifts on a weekly basis, i still have long way to go to reach my goals and lift big numbers but im pretty confident to say that that my high protein diet has played a big role in this improvement and i cant see why i would change from here. misconceptions about dieting and fitness? i dont have any mate, i practice what i preach.

p.s im not sure who runs the local health food store but the butchers a pretty top bloke
 
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