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over training

Repacked said:
Lol, no worries Baz.

Not much point discussing anything with you.
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If you can't understand the link between recovery and training volume and how that ends in overtraining due to a combination of both of them. I can't help you. Fuck, no one can.

Overtraining is when you out train your recovery abilities. They are linked together.
 
Bazza20 said:
If you can't understand the link between recovery and training volume and how that ends in overtraining due to a combination of both of them. I can't help you. Fuck, no one can.

Overtraining is when you out train your recovery abilities. They are linked together.
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I suggest you re-read what I wrote in very plain English that even you could understand rather than getting your panties in a twist. You're on the right track Baz, you have just restated half of what I originally said. Now take that next step. I can illustrate it in a picture if that helps.
 
Repacked said:
I suggest you re-read what I wrote in very plain English that even you could understand rather than getting your panties in a twist. You're on the right track Baz, you have just restated half of what I originally said. Now take that next step. I can illustrate it in a picture if that helps.
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Pack you don't understand it and that's ok. I restated what I said because you are struggling with the concept. You claim they are separate. I certainly didn't restate what you said.

I see we are back at pack logic. Not much point in discussing it with me but you continue to post. Lol. Bit like when you announced that you were ignoring me and posted more than ever. At least it's better than the time you had your first beer and jumped on the forum and said you wanted me to die. So you are getting better at this forum thing. Good stuff buddy. I'm proud of you.
 
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Bazza20 said:
Pack you don't understand it and that's ok. I restated what I said because you are struggling with the concept. You claim they are separate. I certainly didn't restated what you said.

I see we are back at pack logic. Not much point in discussing it with me but you continue to post. Lol. Bit like when you announced that you were ignoring me and posted more than ever. At least it's better than the time you had your first beer and jumped on the forum and said you wanted me to die. So you are getting better at this forum thing. Good stuff buddy. I'm proud of you.
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As usual thanks for your constructive input Baz.
 
Bazza20 said:
Lol. What a surprise. Pack disagrees with me.

It's the same thing. You are just describing two ends of the same piece of string. Overtraining is simply not enough recovery for the work you are doing. They are not separate.
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If you think it's the same thing, you're over simplifying it. So essentially you could train most of the day as long as you keep eating and sleeping during the rest phase? No matter how much you eat, there is a point where you have stimulated muscle growth and you've hit the point of diminishing returns. As Repacked said, you could be training like a pussy, but also eating and sleeping like shit. They're the inverse of each other.
 
As usual Stiffy will be the voice of reason, sorting all this shit out. Let's look at the situation:

On the one hand you have Spartacus. Spartacus says he's some sort of Track n Field Athlete, likes to Hop, Skip and Jump or sumtin. Spartacus has also said that he has low Test levels. He has also said that he "is a woman trapped in a Man's body". His words not mine, although he'll prolly come in and deny it now. Of course he is going to say "Bro split once a week per body part". He has limited recuperative abilities plus is doing other shit; hop, skippin and jumpin or some shit.

Some Athletes (like Rugby League players) run PPL ffs ie Monday - Push, Wednesday - Pull, Friday - Legs. That's as low frequency and volume as you get, but they are Athletes doing other training.


On the other hand we have Big Bad Bustling Barry. Possibly the polar opposite to Spartacus. Barry is a Man on the land. A tough muthafukker and a bad motor skoota. Cut yah Leg off and keep on trukkin kunt. "Overtraining *spit* toughen the fuk up bitch". So yes, the body does adapt overtime, but its a bitch, and a lot of people can't handle greater than once a week.


So, yes Bro splits are not fully efficient, but they allow you to have a life instead of just eating and sleeping after training. Pro Bodybuilders have to run massive splits as they have to have quality muscle - they have to have upper, lower, inner, outer and mid muscle development of each muscle which takes a lot of time. Anyway, I don't think Pro's have days off as they "grow into a Comp" as someone here termed it.

end thread.
 
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stiffy, you are about as knowledgeable as when you were the under 9 age tunnel ball champ.
 
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Bazza20;717304I see we are back at pack logic. Not much point in discussing it with me but you continue to post. Lol. Bit like when you announced that you were ignoring me and posted more than ever. At least it's better than the time you had your first beer and jumped on the forum and said you wanted me to die. So you are getting better at this forum thing. Good stuff buddy. I'm proud of you.[/QUOTE said:
You are far better at fiction than fact. Stick with this champ.
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No more vulgar pics or insults Kunce.
I'm gonna start handing out infractions like a whore hands out roots.
 
Oh dear
"over training rather under recovery could be your problem"

Please, can we just stick with the term over training

many reasons why people overtrain, or train in an overtrained state, and it doesn't necessarily mean one thing.

are you putting on weight? No, why?
are you working hard? No, why?
are you sleeping well? No, why?
lost you appetite? Yes, why?
getting a lot of headaches? Yes, why?

the list is long, it could mean many things, if things happen out of the ordinary ask yourself the questions...

at one point in time I was working out every second day at 100% of intensity of work, I said "work" there is a difference on the off days I did cardiovascular work, it felt great, after time I started to feel tired, irritated, loseing appetite, but still had the passion, my workouts were starting to become less interesting and intense, so I dropped a cardio day and opted for a walk, saw a change, eventually dropping all cardio, today I still workout at 100% but I rest for two days between workouts it felt great, these day I need more sleep, only need an extra hour to had made a huge difference.

i worked out for myself that what ever activities you do recovery comes from the same place, "the system" as you get older it becomes clearer what causes overtraining

get this term under recovery out of your head, the problem is more often than not manifold
 
Your ability to recover from one workout to another, sets and reps and how many days a week you train is up to you, just like eating and fat control we all respond in different ways, this appears to be even more relevant as we age.
 
Good post Gooseface. Agree week whole heartedly.

Took me a while to figure all this out...but i get it now.

Tim.
 
If overtraining and under recovering are not the same, why does better recovery fix the problem?

The people who think they are different have a more narrow definition of recovery than I do.
 
bull said:
If overtraining and under recovering are not the same, why does better recovery fix the problem?

The people who think they are different have a more narrow definition of recovery than I do.
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I've written a full article on this topic and it's available on this forum. The problem that I see is the terminology that is been used or not used in this instance to solve this seemingly confusing scenario. I'll make it clear...

1. Overtraining....yes every Tom Dick and Jane talks about it
2. Under-recovering...as above
3. Over-reaching...hardly anyone talks or knows about it.

For the average trainee, I do not believe in a state of overtraining, but I do believe in a state of under-recovering. That is to say, what one does in the gym can not be hard enough to be called overtraining (I'll explain why in a second). However, what one does not do once they leave the gym, can and does lead to under-recovering, which in turn causes one to not progress as they should, had they ticked all the boxes that go to make one recover properly, namely rest and sleep, nutrition/enough calories and so on and so forth.

Getting back to the overtraining bit and why I consider it near impossible for the average trainee to experience it, based on his gym workout. The main reason for this phenomenon lies with human psychology and the way it affects our physical exertion in that gym. If you truly believe that you're giving it your best during your gym workouts, I'm here to argue the point that you're not. Mmm, so how would I know when I'm giving it my best and what is it that is needed for me to give it my best? In two words: external influence. That is what you need, that is what everyone needs to guarantee true maximum effort.

And that's precisely where over-reaching (and therefore true overtraining if you like) comes in. Confused? No need to be. Think of it this way: one action is deliberate and very much calculated (that is the over-reaching) you were able to attain thanks to that external influence, whilst the other state (that your average trainee in the gym calls overtraining), is no more than some serious lack of under-recovering. A fight with your girlfriend or your boss at work can reduce your ability to recover. It doesn't take much, hence I've always emphasised the positive psychology of an athlete's mind playing a huge part in his ability to make progress. Some athletes are better managers of their stress levels, and know how to handle and control such external and potentially negative influences.

Here's the small article I've written on the subject: Overtraining or under-recovering?
 
steveP said:
If you think it's the same thing, you're over simplifying it. So essentially you could train most of the day as long as you keep eating and sleeping during the rest phase? No matter how much you eat, there is a point where you have stimulated muscle growth and you've hit the point of diminishing returns. As Repacked said, you could be training like a pussy, but also eating and sleeping like shit. They're the inverse of each other.
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Nope never said or suggested anything like that. Have no fucking clue where you pulled that example from.

You have a maximal training amount before you overtrain and that's determined by your recovery.

When I say determined by your recovery I mean age, genetics, sleep, food ect.
 
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sorry fadi, you are wrong.

knew a kid, soccer player, who trained just twice per week, including bit of hill sprints. Timed him over 60m and 100m, he ran 11.5 seconds for 100m with little training.

he went to a commonwealth games 400m silver medalist, and started training six days per week, as many meathead coaches do. got to be about the volume man.

Saw him at interclub running 12.7 seconds for 100m; he had lost many, many metres.

Yes, it is very easy for a novice to overtrain.
 
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