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Big Mick

"2014 - Kunce of the year"
What were the diets of the 'Old School' body builders??

What did Arnold Schwarzenegger, eat daily while training.

What did his competitors eat??

What was the norm back then??

Discuss, benefits and pitfalls of what they did. Post up sample menus.
 
I have a few of these lying around my hard drive, will post them up a bit later.

cliffs notes are they only ate chicken and beef combined due to the anabolic storm it causes.....
 
Tuna and water to trim down.

Hoffmans Protien powder, full cream milk, cream! and and chocalte flavoured quick to fatten-up
 
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1371113917.340329.jpg

Also, I'm sure I remember seeing something on a CBL page about Arnold saying that it used to be more amount the amount of food and less about the type
 
Lots of liver

Well this is really interesting as it brought back some memories for me that I had forgotten all about.

I remember hitting the gym as a young bloke in the mid 80's, and the main supplements promoted/used back then were, Weider Protein Powder and liver tablets, some of the more serious guys would have up to 20 or 30 liver tablets per day, I could not afford them back then as I was a full time TAFE student and had no money, but I did have the Weider Protein power.

Wonder why no one uses the liver any more??
 
Well this is really interesting as it brought back some memories for me that I had forgotten all about.

I remember hitting the gym as a young bloke in the mid 80's, and the main supplements promoted/used back then were, Weider Protein Powder and liver tablets, some of the more serious guys would have up to 20 or 30 liver tablets per day, I could not afford them back then as I was a full time TAFE student and had no money, but I did have the Weider Protein power.

Wonder why no one uses the liver any more??
Before the advent of all the supps we have today, It was common for bodybuilders back in the days of 'Physical Culture' to take dessicated liver tablets as a protein, iron, vitamin B and amino acid supplement.
Vince Gironda was a huge proponent of taking dessicated liver tablets, recommending advanced bodybuilders to take up to 100 tabs a day :eek:
 
Well this is really interesting as it brought back some memories for me that I had forgotten all about.

I remember hitting the gym as a young bloke in the mid 80's, and the main supplements promoted/used back then were, Weider Protein Powder and liver tablets, some of the more serious guys would have up to 20 or 30 liver tablets per day, I could not afford them back then as I was a full time TAFE student and had no money, but I did have the Weider Protein power.

Wonder why no one uses the liver any more??

Desiccated liver was taken of the shelves in the 90's.

You can still purchase it OS though.

Gives you smelly farts.
 
Desiccated liver was taken of the shelves in the 90's.

You can still purchase it OS though.

Gives you smelly farts.
When I was a kid I had slight Anemia and this old Yugoslav doctor told my mum to give me liver tablets every day, I liked the smell of them, they were like little tablets of red meat :D
 
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I used to take them in the early 90's when I begun.
Yeah they were rotten smelling things. I used to dip then in Nutella before swallowing. eheheheh
 
They smelt good, didn't mind the taste.

There is a full write up of comparison liver tab's some yank bloke put together that I read about 5 years ago, ill go hunt for it.
 
Desiccated liver was taken of the shelves in the 90's.

You can still purchase it OS though.

Gives you smelly farts.

Do you know why??

So it's no longer available in Australia??

EDIT:

Just found this after a quick Google search (part of an advertisement for liver tablets):

Quite simply, desiccated liver contains more nutrients, gram for gram, than any other food!

In summary, liver provides:
An excellent source of high-quality protein
Nature's most concentrated source of vitamin A
All the B vitamins in abundance, particularly vitamin B12
One of our best sources of natural folate
A highly usable form of iron
Trace elements such as copper, zinc and chromium; liver is our best source of copper
CoQ10, a nutrient that is especially important for cardio-vascular function
A good source of purines, nitrogen-containing compounds that serve as precursors for DNA and RNA

Outstanding value, 180 capsules (90 grams) of desiccated liver per bottle is the equivalent of almost 2 pounds of fresh, raw liver
 
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30-06-05 04:34 PM - Post#116887





Note: This review is rather long. It turned out to be more involved than I had originally expected, so I apologize in advance for the length. I hope, though, that you�ll see it may be worth the trouble. And if you�re currently taking a desiccated liver supplement, some of what I found my be surprising! --Trance

Since the dawn of history, liver has been eaten fresh from the hunt almost as a ceremony of the prey animal�s strength, courage, and endurance. Primitive man had no knowledge of vitamins, but his instincts were fairly good. It was customary, after the killing of a buffalo or large game, he would eat parts of the liver or other internal organs raw, almost immediately. Even today, some indigenous cultures around the world continue this practice of reserving the liver of animals for their leaders, warriors, and athletes. Warriors we are.

What Is It?
========


Everyone�s grandmother served them liver, usually some messy concoction involving onions, at least once in their life. She assured you lovingly that it was good for you, as you looked at it like a plate of poison had been set before you. Don�t worry about the smell. Just a rose spoiled. Why does granny�s house always smell funny anyway? And why are the dinner table legs always sitting in little tins of water? Ants!

Back to dinner � Liver -- this was when your culinary gauntlet was laid down for the first time in your young life -- either you loved it, or you vowed never to approach the stuff again without threatening granny�s life first, rest of the family and your inheritance be damned.

But granny was right, just as she always has been as you got older, you�ve noticed. It is good for you. Bodybuilders and other athletes realized it early on too, but they hated the taste as well. So someone decided to take all the liquid and fat out of it, and put it in a tablet so it could be swallowed without tasting it. Goodness! Genius!

Today, desiccated defatted liver is whole beef liver that has been concentrated using a vacuum and freeze drying process, utilizing no heat in the procedure. This process concentrates the nutritional content while removing the fat, connective tissues, and water without destroying any of the healthful ingredients via heat.

In almost all cases, the desiccated liver comes from fresh, hormone-free, organically raised, Argentine beef liver, carefully processed to preserve all the nutritional elements while removing any unnecessary components.

Why Argentina?
============


First, the cows supposedly live a life of luxury at home in the Pampas region of Argentina. A region of Argentina that is fertile in natural alfalfa, wheat, and oat grasses. The cattle roam freely on the grand, rich, grasslands. Organic cattle in the Pampas are required by the Argentine Cattle Association to be raised "stress free." They are never given any hormones, branded, or herded aggressively. The animals live outside, free range, running free. Law requires one acre of pasture land per organic designated cow. La Moo.

Just as the liver concentrates everything that is good for the body, it can also concentrate everything that is bad. Cattle from other countries, good ole USA included, have hormones, chemicals, antibiotics, pesticides & herbicides (from the plant matter they eat), fertilizers, drugs, steroids, and who knows what else, possibly concentrated in their livers. Not to mention the practice of taking meat scraps from the slaughter house and recycled back to the other cows. Mad cow. Madder mad cow. Wash. Repeat.

Be sure to look for Argentinean, organic, liver in any product you choose.

What�s In It?
=========


Well, umm � liver.

Protein: 60-80%.

Vitamins: A, B-complex (B-1, B-2, B-6, B-12, choline, inositol, biotine, niacin, pantothenic acid, folic acid, PABA), C, D, E, K, lipotropics choline & inositol.

Minerals: calcium, chromium, copper, heme iron, manganese, phosphorus, potassium, selenium, sodium, & zinc.

Amino acids: alanine, arginine, aspartic acid, cysteine, cystine, glutamic acid, glycine, histidine, isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, proline, serine, threonine, tyrosine, tryptophan, valine

According to Vince Gironda, the "Iron Guru", in addition to these known nutrients, there are substances present in liver that have a beneficial effect on health, fitness, and endurance -- such as cytochrome P-450 (more about this later) and others yet to be identified. He said that desiccated liver contains nucleic acids for proper amino acid utilization, a growth factor, and an anti-estrogen factor, which keeps testosterone levels high, and it is also a great anti-toxin.

Heme Iron
========


Iron is an essential mineral and an important component of proteins involved in oxygen transport and metabolism within your body. Almost two-thirds of the iron in your body is found in hemoglobin, the protein in red blood cells that carries oxygen to your body�s tissues. Smaller amounts of iron are found in myoglobin, a protein that helps supply oxygen directly to muscle tissue, and in enzymes that assist biochemical reactions in cells. About 14-16 percent of your body�s iron is stored for future needs and mobilized when dietary supplies are inadequate. The remainder iron is in your body�s tissues as part of proteins that help your body function.

There are two forms of iron available from your diet: Heme and Non-Heme. Heme iron is found in red meats, poultry, and fish. Non-Heme iron is found in both plant, animal, and mineral sources. Note that Heme iron is not available from any vegetarian source in any significant quantity, if at all.

Now, exactly what is the difference between the two, and why would anyone care, you ask?

Well, most iron supplements found in your neighborhood health food store are 'inorganic', which is not easily absorbed by your body and can cause symptoms such as abdominal cramping, diarrhea, dark stools, etc. It can even be dangerous if too much is taken � this is the Non-Heme iron. It�s generally a molecule of iron compound not �organically wrapped�. Non-Heme iron tends to be poorly absorbed, and is well known to generate the formation of free radicals, molecules that damage cell membranes throughout the body. Think of it as particles of rust, circulating throughout your body. Where�s the Rust-Oleum?

That's why our body has magically found a way insulate us from our own body�s iron by placing it within what is called a Heme ring (hemoglobin), effectively wrapping the iron in a �plastic coated� cover, keeping it pure and non-rusted. We need the iron for oxygen transfer, but we also need to be protected from it internally. Heme iron is this same natural form of iron already found and used in our own body. Rarely has an overdose occurred in taking Heme iron supplements. It�s readily absorbed, and almost immediately usable by your body.

The richest source of natural occurring Heme iron is liver.

Again, remember that Heme iron is involved in every process of oxygen transfer in your body, and almost all metabolic & protein synthesis processes.

The Mysterious Cytochrome P-450
=========================


Vince Gironda mentioned it decades ago, and many current advertisements mention it � with, or without, giving him credit. I�m willing to bet none of the advertisers know what it is or what it does.

�Our liver pills have P-450 components! Don�t trust those other guys! And besides, they�re using platypus livers!�

However, no one ever attempts to explain exactly what this mysterious P-450 component is, or what it does.

I won�t either.

Okay, not really, especially since you�ve made it this far �

Cytochrome P-450 is a family of the body's more powerful detoxification enzymes. Over 60 forms are now known, with hundreds of genetic variations possible, producing a wide variety of susceptibility to specific toxins. This is an enzyme family that your body uses to attack substances that you ingest � substances that it considers detrimental, foreign, or poisonous to your operating system, by making them more water soluble in an attempt to eliminate them from your body through normal means.

For instance, in the case of carbon monoxide poisoning, your P-450 response immediately attempts to capture and isolate the CO molecules to protect your body from being poisoned. If the response is small, such as from a cigarette, or breathing exhaust fumes, your body has the ability to neutralize the attack through the P-450 enzyme reactions quickly and efficiently. Of course, like many systems, it too can be overwhelmed and possibly fail. On the other hand, it only makes sense that if you can supplement your body�s natural P-450 defense system, you only make it stronger.

In fact, it is such a powerful responder, that pharmaceutical companies have to design their new drugs around your body�s P-450 attack responders, spending literally millions of research dollars to work around it.

Cytochrome P-450 proteins in humans are also drug metabolizing enzymes and enzymes that are used to make cholesterol, steroids, and other important lipids in your body.

The name �Cytochrome P-450� derives from the manner in which they reflect light under analysis, and that these proteins have a Heme group attached. There�s that �Heme� word again. Beginning to notice a pattern here?

Many of the ancillary functions of P-450 hadn�t been fully understood until the Human Genome Project had been completed in 2003, along with further DNA experimentation, and the genes for P-450 were specifically investigated. The first crystallization of a mammalian P-450 substance, for instance, didn�t occur until 1999.

How Vince Gironda was on to this substance in the early �70s is anyone�s guess. Genius? Psychic? Alien? Cranky alien?

Okay, Enough Already � What Do Liver Tablets Do?
=====================================


�Desiccated Liver, the Wonder Energy Food!� �Vince Gironda, Blueprint for the Bodybuilder

Claims are made that liver supplements improve fat metabolism, increase energy, increase stamina, help damaged tissues regenerate, curb sugar cravings, and protect the liver. Desiccated liver helps to increase red blood cell count and stimulate appetite. As a side note, anabolic steroids also stimulate appetite and increase red blood cell count.

It may also work as an anti-stress agent, alleviate gum problems, treat anemia, and help produce stronger functioning red blood cells. In addition, it has been proven to help improve recovery time after physical workouts.

The iron and B vitamins in desiccated liver tablets contribute to bone health, muscle building, and immune functioning. Liver is also a great source of the vitamin B-12. B-12 plays an important role in cellular division and is vital to growth. In addition, it assists the body with the burning of fats and carbohydrates. A deficiency of B-12 can also lead to anemia and fatigue. It also seems to play a large role in protection against heart disease.

In a now classic experiment in the �50s, Dr. BH Ershoff demonstrated that liver extract was able to boost strength, endurance, performance, and resistance to stress and disease.

Ershoff took three groups of rats and fed them controlled diets for a 12 week period. Group 1 ate a basic diet fortified with vitamins and minerals. Group 2 ate as much as they wanted of the same diet plus B vitamins and brewer's yeast. Group 3 ate the basic diet but had 10% desiccated liver added to their rations.

The rats were then placed into a drum of water, which they could not climb out of. Therefore, it was literally either sink or swim. The Group 1 rats swam an average of 13.2 minutes before they all drowned. Group 2 swam an average of 13.4 minutes before meeting Group 1 at the ole Davy Jones' Locker. Group 3, however, were still swimming at the end of 2 hours, at which time the experiment was concluded, and the rats set free in a field nearby. Now, either the Group 3 rats had watched the fate of their classmates very closely, or the liver had something to do with them swimming almost 10 times as long.

The Tablet Reviews
==============


When I first began this experiment, I picked up a bottle of desiccated liver tablets from my local Whole Foods store. The only brand of desiccated liver that they carried was �Nature�s Life Beef Liver�. I began by taking 2 tablets every couple of hours, until I was taking about 6 tablets 4-5 times a day.

After two weeks of this regime with the �Nature�s Life� brand, the things I noticed most, from a workout & personal perspective, were the increased stamina, increased energy, quicker recovery times, and less DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness).

I later purchased �Universal Uni-Liver�, �Beverly International Ultra-40�, and �NOW Liver,� which seemed to be the more popular brands that I could find. I used each one over a three week period to see if there were a better response from one brand or the other based on my own personal experience.

figure1.jpg


Interestingly, it seemed I got a better response from my first default choice, �Nature�s Life Beef Liver�, followed somewhat by �Beverly International�s Ultra-40�.

I didn't notice any of the beneficial effects that I had previously, while using �NOW Liver� or �Universal Uni-Liver� tablets. Hmmmm.

Also, some of these tablets, most notably �Universal�s Uni-Liver�, are probably some of the largest tablets you may ever attempt to swallow.

figure2-b.jpg

Side note: Some of these products will indicate their tablet size in �grains� rather than �milligrams�. Just multiple the number of grains by �60� to get the approximate milligram size that most of us are use to.

Tablet Dissolving Test
================


I was curious about how effective these tablets were, considering the size and hardness of some of them, and the fact that the NOW and Universal brands provided no perceived benefits to me in my individual 3-week tests. I was curious as to why. So, I set up a dissolving test for each tablet suspecting that might be the problem.

A healthy human stomach is acidic, in the range of 1.5 to 3.5 pH, on average.

I placed each tablet in a hydrochloric acid solution with a pH value of 2.5.

Here is a photo, after 5 minutes:

figure3.jpg

Interestingly, the Uni-Liver and Nature�s Life tablets both floated, while the other two sunk to the bottom. In addition, the NOW Liver tablet began bubbling almost immediately. All of this is probably related to the different binding ingredients used in each brand of tablet.

Now, after 35 minutes, here�s what we have:

figure4.jpg

This isn�t completely scientific, because I haven�t completely duplicated the process of the stomach, in that I did not provide any type of mixing or churning action that the stomach would naturally do while digesting food, and I didn�t keep the temperature at approximately 99 degrees as would be the case in a healthy stomach.

However, I now had some evidence as to why the �Nature�s Life� product was the best performing product of my test group. It naturally dissolved faster than any of the other products, and thus allowing more complete absorption. You can also see that the �Beverly International� product is in a state of dissolving as well.

Even more interesting, is that the �Universal Uni-Liver� product never showed any signs of dissolving. I continued to allow these samples to sit for another 2 hours � of course, after 2 hours these would have long vacated your stomach, but in the interest of curiosity I continued on. At the end of the 2 hours time, all the other products had dissolved completely, except the �Uni-Liver� product remained exactly as you see it above!

End Thoughts
==========


Well, if you�ve made it this far reading all of this, you�re probably curious whether the benefits of desiccated liver tablets are real? I�ll have to agree that they are, in my opinion. Try them yourself if you aren't already, and you�ll see. Give it a couple of weeks to reap the benefits.

In addition, you�re wondering what do about the size of the tablets, and the fact that some of them aren�t easily dissolved in your stomach?

There are two solutions:

1) Use a liver powder. Let me know how you like that. No, on second thought never mind � I know that answer.

2) Or we have to go back and visit our ole loveable �liver & onion� granny again. �Chew everything you put in your mouth, son -- chew it good before you swallow. Chew it. Wanna borrow my teeth, dearie?�

Information & Ingredient Lists
=======================


�Beverly International Ultra-40�: 500 tablets per bottle, 2600 mg. MSRP $45.00. Ingredients: Argentinean Desiccated Liver (as 4x concentrate) 2600mg, Vitamin B-12 (as cyanocobalamin) 75mcg. Other ingredients: Cellulose, Calcium Phosphate, Magnesium Stearate, & Silicon Dioxide

http://www.bodybuildingworld.com

�Nature�s Life Beef Liver�: 100 tablets per bottle, 1500 mg. MSRP $9.45. Ingredients: Argentinean Beef Liver. Other ingredients: Gelatin, Guar Gum, Vegetarian Stearic Acid, Silicon Dioxide, Cellulose, Vegetarian Magnesium Stearate, & Micro-Cellulose Coating.

http://www.natureslife.com

�NOW Liver�: 200 tablets per bottle, 680 mg. MSRP $5.99. Ingredients: Beef Liver Powder (Argentine, Low Heat). Other Ingredients: Calcium Carbonate, Stearic Acid, Croscarmellose Sodium, & Magnesium Stearate.

http://www.nowfoods.com

�Universal Uni-Liver�: 500 tablets per bottle, 1950 mg. MSRP $20.95. Ingredients: Desiccated bovine liver. Other Ingredients: Whey, Terra Alba, Choline Citrate, Inosital Monophosphate, Magnesium Stearate, & Stearic Acid.

http://www.universalnutrition.com
 
Do you know why??

So it's no longer available in Australia??

EDIT:

Just found this after a quick Google search (part of an advertisement for liver tablets):

Quite simply, desiccated liver contains more nutrients, gram for gram, than any other food!

In summary, liver provides:
An excellent source of high-quality protein
Nature's most concentrated source of vitamin A
All the B vitamins in abundance, particularly vitamin B12
One of our best sources of natural folate
A highly usable form of iron
Trace elements such as copper, zinc and chromium; liver is our best source of copper
CoQ10, a nutrient that is especially important for cardio-vascular function
A good source of purines, nitrogen-containing compounds that serve as precursors for DNA and RNA

Outstanding value, 180 capsules (90 grams) of desiccated liver per bottle is the equivalent of almost 2 pounds of fresh, raw liver


I cannot remember excactly, but a batch made some people ill, knee-jerk reaction, take off the shelves.
 
Interesting read.

I think I want to give this liver thing a go, might order a bottle or two and give it a run for a month.

Not taking any supplements at the moment not even creatine, and only a very occasional WPI Shake.

Just did a quick search I can get 100 tabs of the Natures Life for $8.99, and free delivery when I order 3 bottles. I think I will be placing my order and see how it goes.
 
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