How much rest do you need?

[Timguyperson]

Hey this is my first time on this site, looks like there's a lot of good info here.

I'll just give a quick run down of what I've been doing, and if anyone is able to help me out with some advice that'd be really appreciated.

I've been going to the gym for the past 4 months or so, to start with I went 3 times a week, but in the last month and a half I've been going pretty much everyday. I'm a real hard gainer, never had one bit of fat on me, but I've managed to gain about 5kg in 4 months which brings me up to 78kg (6'1 so still pretty skinny).

But anyway my current rutine now is:
1st day: Arms (biceps, triceps, forearms)
2nd day: Chest (bench press, pec deck, cable cross-overs, push ups etc...)
3rd day: Shoulders (shoulder press, etc...)
4th day: arms again
5th day: chest again
6th day: shoulders again
7th day: start over with arms again. (occasionally I'll have this day off)

I chuck in roman chair, abs, and lats every second day no matter which one it falls on.

I usually do 3 sets of 20-30 reps for each exercise (for example I do bicep curls 10 reps at 20 kg and then straight to 17.5kg no rest and do about 5 or 6 reps then no rest straight to 15kg about 5 reps, then to 12.5kg 5 reps and then 8kg 5 reps, then I'll leave it 3 mins and repeat with less reps, then leave it 3 mins and repeat with less reps - i just basically do each weight until I can't lift it anymore then move to a lesser weight-).

Now most people I know and the trainers and everything tell me to make sure I rest, and a lot of people only do 3 days a week. But I just really love going to the gym and doing a full on work out, and really pushing it, it's an awesome feeling and I'm usually a bit edgy until I've had my work out haha.

Usually the day after a work out the target group of muscles that I did the day before hurt when I touch or poke them, but then after 2 days and it's time to do that muscle group again I can massage the mussles without feeling any pain. Does this mean they have rested enough to be worked again, or am I short changing myself by working out so much.

Also I ride my bike for about 15 mins a day (to get to the gym and back).

Any other advice about my routine would be appreciated too.

Cheers.

Tim.

 

[Timguyperson]

Also just quickly, it used to take me 3 or 4 days for my muscles to stop hurting after a work out, but it seems like ever since I started taking protein powder it cuts the recovery time in half. Right now I take 105 grams of protein and 133 grams of carbs a day in my shakes, plus the protein from about 1L of milk a day.

 

[The Hulk]

All I can see in your routine is arms, chest and delts ???
And 6-7 days per week

No wonder you only put on 5kg in 4 months.
You could have easily double or even tripled that gain by:

Training less, 3 days a week is fine.
Resting more.
Eating more.


But, most important of all- Train your legs hard with extreme intensity, squats and deadlifts, lunges and stiff leg deadlifts too.


Good luck

 

[Cruxis]

Also should train back. As you increase weight, you may not train it, but the back would play a part in some exercises, and by not training it, you're leading up to injury. And you don't want back injuries as they take a long time to heal and prevent you from doing a lot of exercises.

 

[Timguyperson]

I do back (mentioned roman chair) 2 or 3 times a week. I don't concentrate much on legs, I'll do my calfs a couple of times a week (forgot to mention that) and riding a few hours gets the rest of my legs.

I'm thinking maybe I'll take your advice and concentrate on legs one day a week. That way I'll be avoiding doing any upper body for that day which is another day rest. And then I might make another day a week as a rest day as well.

But quickly back to my question. If my muslces don't hurt after 2 days isn't it okay to work those muscles again?

Or does resting muscles that don't hurt achieve something too?

And 5 kg in 4 months is good for me considering I went from 73kg to 77kg then got sick and lost 2kg, then went up to 79kg then got toncilitus and went down to 75kg, now I've just gotten back to 78kg. I've read that with my ectomorph body type, the best I can expect is 10kg a year anyway???

 

[The Hulk]

I do back (mentioned roman chair) 2 or 3 times a week. I don't concentrate much on legs, I'll do my calfs a couple of times a week (forgot to mention that) and riding a few hours gets the rest of my legs.

I'm thinking maybe I'll take your advice and concentrate on legs one day a week. That way I'll be avoiding doing any upper body for that day which is another day rest. And then I might make another day a week as a rest day as well.

But quickly back to my question. If my muslces don't hurt after 2 days isn't it okay to work those muscles again?

Or does resting muscles that don't hurt achieve something too?

And 5 kg in 4 months is good for me considering I went from 73kg to 77kg then got sick and lost 2kg, then went up to 79kg then got toncilitus and went down to 75kg, now I've just gotten back to 78kg. I've read that with my ectomorph body type, the best I can expect is 10kg a year anyway???

Hi Timguyperson,

You have done well, no doubt about it, better than the majority of the general population.

However, you could do alot better if you really really want it.


A few points:

Roman chair targets your lower back, not the big muscles of the middle and upper back. For these you need heavy lifts like rows and chins.

Calves are a important, but small muscle and isolation exercises for them will add minimal mass to your body.

Riding a bike a few hours/week is more like cardio and will more likely make you lose weight than gain weight, unless of course you increase your calories and then some to allow for this.

Personally, I don't believe you need to train the same muscle every 2 or 3 days. If you get a better workout split, you will get some overlapping exercises anyway. Like when you do back, biceps also get worked hard. Same goes for when you do chest and delts, triceps get worked.

I've read that with my ectomorph body type, the best I can expect is 10kg a year anyway
This is bullshit, who told you this? Maybe an advanced trainer wil be limited year after year, but if you have recently started training, you can get alot of growth in your first year.

Don't have limiting beliefs otherwise you will limit your goals.
Don't categorise yourself or you will always be using it as an excuse.

Put effort into your diet, workout and rest and you can definately gain 20kg in your first year. Obviously not 100% muscle gain, but good mass gain.


Good luck.

 

[Shrek]

You need to start all over again.
New rotuine, new diet, new attitude, new everything.

How dare you not even train back or legs?

 

[Timguyperson]

Hulk cheers for the comments, but I think 20kg is a bit much for me to expect as I can't put on anything but muscle, I've never ever put on any fat at all.

And wtf shrek? If anyone needs a new attitude it's you. When did you win Mr Olympia anyway, with such words of wisdom it must have been at least 10 years in a row.

Why do you say I need a new attitude? Because I've set realistic acheivable goals for myself, and I work hard at accomplishing them?

And a new routine? I'm trying to improve my routine, I'm just starting out, of course it's not going to be perfect. Now I'm sure you knew everything about bodybuilding within your first 4 months but please cut some of us mere mortals some slack.

And I didn't even mention my diet, so how do you even know I need a new one? Or are you just trying to sound big and intelligent. Give me a break, I came on here to get advice, not shit.

 

[Shrek]

Why don't you try full body workouts for a few months 3 days per week.

Something like this
Day 1 - Squats x 3, BenchPress x 3, Barbell Row x 3, bicep curl x 2
Day 2 - Deadlift x 3, Military Press x 3, Tricep Extension x 2, Leg Curl x 3, Calf Raise x 3
Day 3 - Squat x 3, Incline Bench x 3, Chin Up x 3, Ab work

Didn't mean to sound harsh, but it's common sense to train legs and back, not a question of being a beginner or not.

 

[Cruxis]

Real men train legs.

You'll know why after your first real leg session.

 

[Timguyperson]

yeah I know I've got to start training legs, I've just been lazy. My thoughts have been, 'sure I have chicken legs...but I've also got jeans'

I might give that whole body training a go in a bit to try and mix things up.

 

[The Hulk]

Training legs will also help your whole body to grow faster.

It will also also teach you alot about yourself and your character when you are really pushing out hard sets of squats. Once you have overcome some near death squat sessions your mental toughness will be greatly strengthened.

 

[Timguyperson]

Why do they make the body grow faster?

 

[Delta101]

Why do they make the body grow faster?

Working the WHOLE body increases your ability to put on weight - the larger the muscle group that gets teared the more the body is stimulated to grow and the more testosterone is released into the blood stream. Most people find that if they have not really done legs and only upper body and are finding it hard to add weight to the bar that after adding heavy squats they all of a sudden can easily push past plateaus they are having on upper body work as well as making gains in the legs.

Seriously you are working TOO hard and the wrong way. A complete beginner (like me too - and especially a hard gainer) has to work the whole body really hard ~3 days a week, and rest ~4. You should be able to increase the weight on the bar EVERY workout for a few months at least by working out this way. Think about it like this - every minute you spend in the gym is ripping your muscles - they don't get bigger unless you let them rest and repair - While your sitting at home on your days off those muscles are growing as long as you get the required rest and eat eat eat - lots of protein but calories in general.

The other thing is that you are working your muscles in isolated groups - and they hurt - then you don't work them again until they stop hurting. For a beginner this does not get you the conditioning you need. After doing squats your going to find your still hurting 2 days later. Your still going to add weight to the bar and lift it, after a few weeks you'll find the second day is no where near as painful and its only the off day in between where you hurt. I've just gotten past this stage and I'm loving it - I'm no longer dreading the lift in two days coz I know I'll be mostly pain free by then.

Get yourself a copy of starting strength 2nd edition - its helping me no end.

 

[Shrek]

yeah I know I've got to start training legs, I've just been lazy. My thoughts have been, 'sure I have chicken legs...but I've also got jeans'

I might give that whole body training a go in a bit to try and mix things up.

That's the spirit. Once you do this for a few months then you could move on to a 3 or 4 day split and focus on specific muscle groups per session.

 

[mike367]

Throw out the scales, don't get hung up on your body weight, as it will will fluctuate on a daily basis. Use a mirror and or tape measure, or wait for your shirts to feel a bit small.

 

[breebreerocks]

Entertaining story about why you need to rest and work your whole body...

My boy finally purchased some weights to stop me nagging, but refused to take my advice about different exercises. All he knew how to do was a bicep curl. So he did bicep curls for three days straight, about 20 mins each time.

He cam home from work on the end of day three. From over working the muscles and then sitting typing at the computer all day his arms seized up. Came home with arms stuck at 90 degrees like a robot. Can't say it ever felt better to say I told you so...

 

[Timguyperson]

I did whole body for about 2 months, but then wasn't getting any gains because I just didn't work the muscles enough. Now if I do arms I'll hit the muscle group with 3 different exercises for bicep, 3 for tricep, and a couple for forearms, and I get a really good pump. Trying to do whole body work outs gave me no pump, but I was trying to fit a lot in each day. Split works really well for me.

I'm back up to 79kg now, which is my previous max, before I got toncilitus and went back down to 75kg. People are starting to notice my gains which is really encouraging, feels like I'm actually getting somewhere.

My new workout week will be:

Monday: Shoulders
Tuesday: Legs
Wednesday: Arms
Thursday: Rest
Friday: Chest
Saturday: Rest
Sunday: stomach and back.

And I started adding more calories to my diet this week, before I was probably only having about 2000 a day, now I've gone up to about 3700 calories a day. Is that good or still not enough for a hard gainer? Right now all I do is study and go to the gym, so I'm not burning anything off besides my gym workout.

Thanks for your replys

 

[Delta101]

I did whole body for about 2 months, but then wasn't getting any gains because I just didn't work the muscles enough. Now if I do arms I'll hit the muscle group with 3 different exercises for bicep, 3 for tricep, and a couple for forearms, and I get a really good pump. Trying to do whole body work outs gave me no pump, but I was trying to fit a lot in each day. Split works really well for me.

I'm back up to 79kg now, which is my previous max, before I got toncilitus and went back down to 75kg. People are starting to notice my gains which is really encouraging, feels like I'm actually getting somewhere.

My new workout week will be:

Monday: Shoulders
Tuesday: Legs
Wednesday: Arms
Thursday: Rest
Friday: Chest
Saturday: Rest
Sunday: stomach and back.

And I started adding more calories to my diet this week, before I was probably only having about 2000 a day, now I've gone up to about 3700 calories a day. Is that good or still not enough for a hard gainer? Right now all I do is study and go to the gym, so I'm not burning anything off besides my gym workout.

Thanks for your replys

2 months isn't enough dude. Considering you also admit your diet/calorie intake was not high enough of course you didn't get the gains you could have. Seriously - eat about 4000-4500 calories per day (drink lots of milk)and only work out 3 days a week - really work hard on the squats/deads and you should keep gaining. Sure after maybe 2 months or so you will plateau, thats when you do a small reset on that exercise so you can continue to gain. Hardgainers especially need to lift really heavy and rest lots to see good gains - thats just the way it is. There is absolutley no need to 'get the pump'. Talk to anyone who trains olympic lifters/power lifters/stregth related athletes from beginner to the top - they will all tell you the same thing - A beginner is not conditioned to high volume and will stall very quickly - something like Starting strength or SL 5x5 is where they recommend any beginner to start to get good gains - and they say "Stick to the program - do not cheat, add or subtract exercises for at least 6 months" get 8-10hrs sleep and eat big.

 

[Timguyperson]

how do you manage 4000-4500 calories a day? I drink 1L of milk a day, that's about 600 calories, then my protein/carbs shakes give me 1200 calories (105grams of protein), then I have cereal for breakfast which probably doesn't give me much, then a tripple 1/4 pounder is 1165 cal, then dinner which might be another 600 cal. And all that is just around 3700.

And I get heaps of rest already, about 12-13hrs of sleep a day. You guys might say I work out too much, but I rest shit loads. I have a 2 hour nap after I work out, and then sleep around 11 hours a night.

Also I started with doing bicep curls at 12.5kg and 15kg, now I can do them at 20kg, so I must be getting somewhere.