0ni
Registered Rustler
I used the seated cable row machine for sets of ten to learn this
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I used the seated cable row machine for sets of ten to learn this
I'm trying to picture what you are saying. Do you mean pin your shoulders back like bench setup. Or more down with the lats.
With touch and go reps. I love them for conventional deads. There isn't much harder thing that you can do in the gym than a heavy set of proper t and g deads and they increase my dead better than anything else i have tried. I wouldn't use them for sumo though. Can't keep form at all.
Cool, that makes sense.
IRON TANKS
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Setup I use
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syt7A23YnpA]Mark Rippetoe: Deadlift Set-Up - YouTube[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syt7A23YnpA]Mark Rippetoe: Deadlift Set-Up - YouTube[/ame]
Goosey
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Written by a women called Nancy Strasser, that I read on garage gym forum many many years ago.
Garage gym was possibly the first weight training forum started by jay trigg, it was so cool.
When I first started to deadlift (about a year ago), I found it to be a great “ego” exercise—one where I could lift reasonably large weights, without a lot of concern for “technique.” (After all, deadlifting is not brain surgery, it’s something we do all the time at work and at home.) I got a big surprise, though, when I began an abbreviated training program, and dropped my five-sets three-times-a-week routine—the weights I could lift started going up fast, and the deadlift no longer seemed so simple. I began encountering a myriad of problems that hadn’t occurred with the lower weights. One by one, I had to overcome those obstacles, to continue making progress on the lift. So, for those readers new to the deadlift, I offer my suggestions for overcoming the common “beginners” obstacles.
Obstacle #1: Too much back
To begin with I could really feel it in my low back for days after lifting. But because I was a novice at the deadlift, and not yet using enough load to be causing back soreness, I knew I was doing something wrong. I didn’t significantly improve on the deadlift until I stopped thinking of it as a back exercise and started treating it as a leg exercise (one which happens to work the back as well). But even then, I had trouble putting the theory into practice. I was very careful at my initial setup, to keep the hips above the knees and the shoulders above the hips, but as the set progressed I would still put most of the stress on my back.
Finally, I broke the code after seeing a video of another lifter, whose form was degrading toward the end of a 20-rep set, and then a video of myself (with form degrading after the very first rep). The problem occurred, not when raising the weight, but when lowering it. There’s a natural tendency to lower the weight by leaning forward, instead of bending at both the hips and the knees. This alone puts extra stress on the back; but it also sets up a pattern of rapidly-degrading form, because it doesn’t return the lifter to the correct starting position.
I overcame this tendency by treating each rep as a single. I now return to my setup position on every rep—consciously pausing at the bottom to re-set, before lifting again. This puts the load in the right place, poised for a lift using the legs more than the back. And it helps establish my groove, to ensure that I lower the weight the same way that I raised it.
Obstacle #2: Grip failure
Once I got my form in order, and could feel my legs doing some work, I faced another obstacle: I couldn’t hold the bar long enough to come anywhere close to muscle failure in the legs. My hands would ache, my calluses would tear, and my enthusiasm for completing a 15-rep set would peter out by the tenth rep. So, rather than return to using gloves, or learn how to use those complicated-looking wrist straps, I set out to improve my grip.
As many hard gainers already know, grip work is extremely gratifying, since the improvement from an untrained grip to even a modestly-trained grip is dramatic! And incorporating specific grip work into my routines (particularly the farmer’s walk with dumbbells, and hanging for time from a chinup bar) definitely helped my deadlift. Further improvements occurred, when I switched my grip technique from both-hands-pronated to an alternating grip—one hand pronated and the other supinated. Since this grip is asymmetrical, I alternate which hand is pronated, from one workout to the next. I’ve also found the hook grip—fingers closed over the thumbs—to be useful, particularly for stiff-legged deadlifts.
Obstacle #3: Exhaustion
A 15–20 rep set of any exercise will raise my heart and breathing rates; and with a heavy exercise like the deadlift, I would get too exhausted and breathless to continue a set past 15. The solution to this problem turned out to be very simple: breathing only when necessary. This is supposed to be deadlifting, not some kind of cardio trauma test. It’s not necessary to hold that bar at the top of the lift, while gasping for an extra breath.
I now take as many breaths as I want between reps. I set the bar down when taking an extra breath, and even stand up between reps if necessary. This not only forestalls the breathless exhaustion, but provides some relief to extend my grip endurance, as well.
Obstacle #4: Mental mistakes
Once I’d conquered the physical hurdles to productive deadlifting, I found a whole separate category of obstacles—the mental mistakes that could ruin a set of deadlifts as surely as muscle failure could. If I became distracted or discouraged on the first or second rep, the entire set might be doomed to an early cut-off.
Distractions were easy to minimize, if I just took the time to turn up the radio, take the phone off the hook, and lock the spouse in the garage. I would also take a moment to verify the bar was properly loaded, determine which hand should be pronated, and pull up my socks far enough to protect my shins. Then I could start the set with the knowledge that nothing short of an earthquake was going to distract me.
But even without any distractions, there was no guarantee that I wouldn’t get discouraged early into the set by questioning my choice of rep schemes, doubting if I’d really taken enough recovery time, wondering how I ever expected to complete this workout if I’d barely managed a lesser weight last week, and re-negotiating my 15-rep target down to something perhaps more manageable. These kinds of obstacles could only be overcome by mental counter-tactics during the set—not just convincing myself that I was strong enough to lift the bar, but that I was tough enough to finish the set. This was hard work, not heroics; and the mental tactics had to be tailored accordingly.
At the opposite end of the spectrum from discouragement was overconfidence. Whenever I completed a particularly good set of deadlifts, I confidently raised the weight for the very next workout. This is not necessarily a mistake for all lifters, but it was a mistake for me, because it killed all my momentum for weeks to come. An increase of a mere few pounds might drop me back to half my target reps—this is enough to demolish that new-found confidence, until I could work back up to my target reps. Psychologically, I found it was much better to stay at a given weight for several workouts, to build up the confident feeling that attaining my target reps wasn’t just a one-time fluke.
Summary
All lifters will have their own individual “beginners” obstacles to discover, face, and conquer. Surmounting those obstacles will not make them into champion-class powerlifters overnight (at least, it didn’t work that way for me). But it will clear the way for the more meaningful challenge of deadlifting: increasing weight on the bar and/or the number of reps, and allowing for truly productive workouts with this extremely beneficial exercise.
Garage gym was possibly the first weight training forum started by jay trigg, it was so cool.
When I first started to deadlift (about a year ago), I found it to be a great “ego” exercise—one where I could lift reasonably large weights, without a lot of concern for “technique.” (After all, deadlifting is not brain surgery, it’s something we do all the time at work and at home.) I got a big surprise, though, when I began an abbreviated training program, and dropped my five-sets three-times-a-week routine—the weights I could lift started going up fast, and the deadlift no longer seemed so simple. I began encountering a myriad of problems that hadn’t occurred with the lower weights. One by one, I had to overcome those obstacles, to continue making progress on the lift. So, for those readers new to the deadlift, I offer my suggestions for overcoming the common “beginners” obstacles.
Obstacle #1: Too much back
To begin with I could really feel it in my low back for days after lifting. But because I was a novice at the deadlift, and not yet using enough load to be causing back soreness, I knew I was doing something wrong. I didn’t significantly improve on the deadlift until I stopped thinking of it as a back exercise and started treating it as a leg exercise (one which happens to work the back as well). But even then, I had trouble putting the theory into practice. I was very careful at my initial setup, to keep the hips above the knees and the shoulders above the hips, but as the set progressed I would still put most of the stress on my back.
Finally, I broke the code after seeing a video of another lifter, whose form was degrading toward the end of a 20-rep set, and then a video of myself (with form degrading after the very first rep). The problem occurred, not when raising the weight, but when lowering it. There’s a natural tendency to lower the weight by leaning forward, instead of bending at both the hips and the knees. This alone puts extra stress on the back; but it also sets up a pattern of rapidly-degrading form, because it doesn’t return the lifter to the correct starting position.
I overcame this tendency by treating each rep as a single. I now return to my setup position on every rep—consciously pausing at the bottom to re-set, before lifting again. This puts the load in the right place, poised for a lift using the legs more than the back. And it helps establish my groove, to ensure that I lower the weight the same way that I raised it.
Obstacle #2: Grip failure
Once I got my form in order, and could feel my legs doing some work, I faced another obstacle: I couldn’t hold the bar long enough to come anywhere close to muscle failure in the legs. My hands would ache, my calluses would tear, and my enthusiasm for completing a 15-rep set would peter out by the tenth rep. So, rather than return to using gloves, or learn how to use those complicated-looking wrist straps, I set out to improve my grip.
As many hard gainers already know, grip work is extremely gratifying, since the improvement from an untrained grip to even a modestly-trained grip is dramatic! And incorporating specific grip work into my routines (particularly the farmer’s walk with dumbbells, and hanging for time from a chinup bar) definitely helped my deadlift. Further improvements occurred, when I switched my grip technique from both-hands-pronated to an alternating grip—one hand pronated and the other supinated. Since this grip is asymmetrical, I alternate which hand is pronated, from one workout to the next. I’ve also found the hook grip—fingers closed over the thumbs—to be useful, particularly for stiff-legged deadlifts.
Obstacle #3: Exhaustion
A 15–20 rep set of any exercise will raise my heart and breathing rates; and with a heavy exercise like the deadlift, I would get too exhausted and breathless to continue a set past 15. The solution to this problem turned out to be very simple: breathing only when necessary. This is supposed to be deadlifting, not some kind of cardio trauma test. It’s not necessary to hold that bar at the top of the lift, while gasping for an extra breath.
I now take as many breaths as I want between reps. I set the bar down when taking an extra breath, and even stand up between reps if necessary. This not only forestalls the breathless exhaustion, but provides some relief to extend my grip endurance, as well.
Obstacle #4: Mental mistakes
Once I’d conquered the physical hurdles to productive deadlifting, I found a whole separate category of obstacles—the mental mistakes that could ruin a set of deadlifts as surely as muscle failure could. If I became distracted or discouraged on the first or second rep, the entire set might be doomed to an early cut-off.
Distractions were easy to minimize, if I just took the time to turn up the radio, take the phone off the hook, and lock the spouse in the garage. I would also take a moment to verify the bar was properly loaded, determine which hand should be pronated, and pull up my socks far enough to protect my shins. Then I could start the set with the knowledge that nothing short of an earthquake was going to distract me.
But even without any distractions, there was no guarantee that I wouldn’t get discouraged early into the set by questioning my choice of rep schemes, doubting if I’d really taken enough recovery time, wondering how I ever expected to complete this workout if I’d barely managed a lesser weight last week, and re-negotiating my 15-rep target down to something perhaps more manageable. These kinds of obstacles could only be overcome by mental counter-tactics during the set—not just convincing myself that I was strong enough to lift the bar, but that I was tough enough to finish the set. This was hard work, not heroics; and the mental tactics had to be tailored accordingly.
At the opposite end of the spectrum from discouragement was overconfidence. Whenever I completed a particularly good set of deadlifts, I confidently raised the weight for the very next workout. This is not necessarily a mistake for all lifters, but it was a mistake for me, because it killed all my momentum for weeks to come. An increase of a mere few pounds might drop me back to half my target reps—this is enough to demolish that new-found confidence, until I could work back up to my target reps. Psychologically, I found it was much better to stay at a given weight for several workouts, to build up the confident feeling that attaining my target reps wasn’t just a one-time fluke.
Summary
All lifters will have their own individual “beginners” obstacles to discover, face, and conquer. Surmounting those obstacles will not make them into champion-class powerlifters overnight (at least, it didn’t work that way for me). But it will clear the way for the more meaningful challenge of deadlifting: increasing weight on the bar and/or the number of reps, and allowing for truly productive workouts with this extremely beneficial exercise.
0ni
Registered Rustler
Bazza I do a few sets of chin-ups so I can feel the pump in my lats then I think above shoving my lats in my pockets if that makes sense. The lats also act as thoracic extensors so doing this is a great way to stop your back from rounding when you deadlift (note: that's rounding - a verb; not an adjective)
0ni
Registered Rustler
A word on tightness
I was just going through my logs that I keep on my laptop and posting them in my log here. I came across an interesting point about working on your weaknesses. I am a big, big fan of using special exercises to correct weaknesses whether they are mental, technical or strength based.
You're lacking the ability to get tight at the start of the deadlift. That is your weakness right? You now know HOW to generate this tightness but you will obviously need to work on this. What is tightness? It is isometric strength. When you first go to lift the bar from the ground you're tensing your lats, your lower back is set, your hamstrings are tight and you're gripping the bar hard. When you break the weight from the ground, NONE of this changes until you hit a higher point of the lift it's pretty much your quads doing the work until your glutes can take over. OK, I admit hamstrings are important off the floor but as I said before they perform an isometric role as a dynamic stabiliser as one head shortens as the other lengthens.
So without a doubt, you need to practice this position to develop the ability and isometric strength needed to get really good at being tight. The best exercise for this is the halting deadlift. You break the weight off the floor then pause and hold the weight around mid shin for a few seconds before completing the lift. I'd like to know what the other people think of this hypothesis as it seems to make sense to me. The best way to get good at something is to practice it so it seems logical to theme the majority of your deadlifting training around whatever needs improving the most (tightness)
I don't really have a very good idea of your training but based off a weight of 95kg and a deadlift of 240kg, you will get a whole lot better just doing these halting deadlifts at 75-80% of 1RM for triples to sets of 5 and just doing more sets each week for 8 weeks before retesting your maxes. These are Medvedev's recommendations on programming based on your lifter rating, not mine
I was just going through my logs that I keep on my laptop and posting them in my log here. I came across an interesting point about working on your weaknesses. I am a big, big fan of using special exercises to correct weaknesses whether they are mental, technical or strength based.
You're lacking the ability to get tight at the start of the deadlift. That is your weakness right? You now know HOW to generate this tightness but you will obviously need to work on this. What is tightness? It is isometric strength. When you first go to lift the bar from the ground you're tensing your lats, your lower back is set, your hamstrings are tight and you're gripping the bar hard. When you break the weight from the ground, NONE of this changes until you hit a higher point of the lift it's pretty much your quads doing the work until your glutes can take over. OK, I admit hamstrings are important off the floor but as I said before they perform an isometric role as a dynamic stabiliser as one head shortens as the other lengthens.
So without a doubt, you need to practice this position to develop the ability and isometric strength needed to get really good at being tight. The best exercise for this is the halting deadlift. You break the weight off the floor then pause and hold the weight around mid shin for a few seconds before completing the lift. I'd like to know what the other people think of this hypothesis as it seems to make sense to me. The best way to get good at something is to practice it so it seems logical to theme the majority of your deadlifting training around whatever needs improving the most (tightness)
I don't really have a very good idea of your training but based off a weight of 95kg and a deadlift of 240kg, you will get a whole lot better just doing these halting deadlifts at 75-80% of 1RM for triples to sets of 5 and just doing more sets each week for 8 weeks before retesting your maxes. These are Medvedev's recommendations on programming based on your lifter rating, not mine
0ni
Registered Rustler
I was talking about your back starting off in one position and rounding into another
As opposed to starting off rounded and holding a static position throughout the lift