Help with deadlift

[pistachio]

Hey guys, I'm having a few issues with my deadlift.

Typically, I have had good speed throughout the whole lift with grip at the top being the only problem (i.e. sometimes falls out before I could lock it out).

Now however, I am finding as the weight gets heavier (typically comes in around 235kgs+), I am weak around 80% of the way up.

What happens is this:

- Quick off the ground and through the beginning of the lift.
- Around 75% of the way up, my back is a bit rounded and I find it hard to 'straighten it up' to lock out the lift. The actual lock out at the very top is fine, it seems to be around 3 quarters of the way up it gets slow.

I think sometimes I am actually stopping, and then digging deep and pulling it up (not hitching, just not moving).

I'm also finding that I am feeling slightly at risk around the midsection of overstraining or causing a hernia or something. I haven't felt this before, but as I start to get heavy, it just seems like I might be overstraining my midsection. I've never considered wearing a belt before, but this seems like this might be a worthy cause.

Thoughts?

I'm quite keen to lift at least 250kgs in 2 weeks time. I know I wil have the speed off the ground, but at the moment, the top bit of the lift (not the lockout) is looking dicy.

 

[Sticky]

A vid would really, really help.

Basically, 1 of 2 issues is normally the cause....

Starting position

Lat/trap - general upper back strength.

Without a vid, it's hard to give more detailed advice man.

 

[bams_101]

Yeah a vid would be good.

When you say 75% I'm guessing you mean an inch or two above the knee?

Like Sticky said hows your upper back/lat strength? Matt Kroc used to have problems at the top part of the lift then he added his infamous high rep rows into his program and by all accounts seemed to help him. This could also help with your grip problem. With grip on a deadlift it only needs to last around 5 seconds, maybe 10 if its a real grinder. So possibly adding in some heavy holds for 10-20 seconds as assisstance work. Im also guessing you use mixed grip on your heavy sets?

 

[pistachio]

A vid would really, really help.

Basically, 1 of 2 issues is normally the cause....

Starting position

Lat/trap - general upper back strength.

Without a vid, it's hard to give more detailed advice man.

I posted some videos a while back, see here http://ausbb.com/member-pics-videos/19137-deadlift-form-check-192-5-x-3-a.html

I don't think my form would have changed appreciably since then. Obviously they aren't 1 reppers tho, but they were still reasonably close to maximal effort at the time.

You'll get an idea of my setup from there, although I don't think I suffered the same grinding problems with those weights.

I'll try to get a new vid next week, I think I need to go for 245kgs which will be a new PB.

Traps have strengthened up a lot and I am shrugging quite heavy now, so I think the problem is before that part of the lift.

Could very well be my lats as I haven't been training them for strength at all (and in fact, they have probably been somewhat neglected in recent times).

Maybe I should get back into the weighted chins.

Yeah a vid would be good.

When you say 75% I'm guessing you mean an inch or two above the knee?

Like Sticky said hows your upper back/lat strength? Matt Kroc used to have problems at the top part of the lift then he added his infamous high rep rows into his program and by all accounts seemed to help him. This could also help with your grip problem. With grip on a deadlift it only needs to last around 5 seconds, maybe 10 if its a real grinder. So possibly adding in some heavy holds for 10-20 seconds as assisstance work. Im also guessing you use mixed grip on your heavy sets?

I'm actually not entirely sure at what part of the lift it is. It seems like it is close to the top. Again, I'll take a video next week, hopefully it'll be more clear.

Yeah, I use a mixed grip mate.

I am starting to hold my 1 reppers at the top to aid in grip strength, but sometimes I have to drop it (i.e. when the bar has already rolled out of my optimal grip), otherwise it tears off the callouses.

 

[Grippy]

245 will be a massive lift mate, well done.
Something that has helped my grip with deads, is touch and go reps (I have steel plates on concrete so there is no bounce), weight touches floor and your up again, that way your holding onto the sucker the whole time instead of resetting each rep. I am sure some will disagree.

 

[pistachio]

245 will be a massive lift mate, well done.
Something that has helped my grip with deads, is touch and go reps (I have steel plates on concrete so there is no bounce), weight touches floor and your up again, that way your holding onto the sucker the whole time instead of resetting each rep. I am sure some will disagree.

Thanks man

Fuck me, steel on concrete touch and go? That must make a hell of a noise lol

I don't mind touch and go, but it just doesn't seem great for your lower back (too jarring). I can't imagine doing it steel on concrete!

 

[Grippy]

Thanks man

Fuck me, steel on concrete touch and go? That must make a hell of a noise lol

I don't mind touch and go, but it just doesn't seem great for your lower back (too jarring). I can't imagine doing it steel on concrete!

Have an inch thick solid rubber mat down but nearly as hard as the concrete, yes it makes a hell of a noise and rings in my ears. I started doing touch and go a while ago and found it easier on the back as its tensed and doesn't relax for the whole set.

 

[Sticky]

Watched your vids and seen your issue straight away.
Its gravity making your life harder because your not setting your shoulders, and may not have the strength to hold them there if you do.

Its your shoulders, and the lack of setting them.

Before you pull, you need to almost externally rotate the joint, and lock them in really tight to your lats.

Stand up, arms by your side.
Flex your lats, and SLIGHTLY externally rotate the shoulder,pinning your triceps against your lats.
Thats how your pull should start..... Impossible to do with TNG reps, which is why I never recommend them.

If you leave your shoulder loose you will pull past your knees, and it will just stop, and you will have to slowly grind as your shoulders pull bar and the bar comes to lockout.

Pendaly rows, trap bar rows, wg pull ups are your new best friends.

 

[Sticky]

If you still dont know what im talking about, I can do a video explaining the basics of my set up, and how I teach it.

 

[pistachio]

Watched your vids and seen your issue straight away.
Its gravity making your life harder because your not setting your shoulders, and may not have the strength to hold them there if you do.

Its your shoulders, and the lack of setting them.

Before you pull, you need to almost externally rotate the joint, and lock them in really tight to your lats.

Stand up, arms by your side.
Flex your lats, and SLIGHTLY externally rotate the shoulder,pinning your triceps against your lats.
Thats how your pull should start..... Impossible to do with TNG reps, which is why I never recommend them.

If you leave your shoulder loose you will pull past your knees, and it will just stop, and you will have to slowly grind as your shoulders pull bar and the bar comes to lockout.

Pendaly rows, trap bar rows, wg pull ups are your new best friends.

That sounds about right. The part in bold is pretty much exactly what is happening.

I will have to try this next week. My main concern (other than the fact that week 10 of the program is probably not a good time to tweak form) is that with my shoulders tight, I might struggle to have the flexibility to actually lean down and pick up the bar. This might be completely untrue, it just seems that I have to let my shoulders 'hang' a bit to actually be able to reach down and grab the bar.

Thanks Scott

Out of interest, why is it impossible to do this with TNG reps? And is that the only reason you don't recommend doing them?

 

[pistachio]

If you still dont know what im talking about, I can do a video explaining the basics of my set up, and how I teach it.

I'm pretty sure I know what you are saying, but a video would still be great if you don't mind doing one

I'll try to get a new video up next week when I go for the 245kgs. As mentioned though, not sure how I'll go trying a PB with new form...

 

[Sticky]

Watch some of my DL vids.
I grab the bar, bend down, leave my arse super high..........Just before I pull, I drop to the starting position, felx my lats, hold my shoulders back, then pull, all within a second.
Flexibilty has nothing to do with it.

As far as TNG, most raw lifters are weak off the floor, or not fast enough. Training from a dead stop will help.
Cant set up properly, can result in injury.
Not a true indicator of DL strength.

Arse high, drop, lock, pull (though in this, Im locking whilst coming down, so its not as apparent)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEthR1-O2Oo]PTC Brisbane - Scott pulls 302kg WR @ GPC Worlds. - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Sticky]

Ill make a vid when I have time

 

[Sticky]

Also, you mentioned you drop the bar.
Make sure you limit strap use and that you GRIP the bar not just GRAB it.

Watch how I twist my grip into the bar. Ill never drop one.

 

[0ni]

Doing more reps will flatten out that wild force curve you have. Some 5rm work on friday and 5x5 on monday would work well. You would obv have to tone down the squatting

But yeah, less singles and triples and more reps are needed imo

 

[0ni]

Plus what sticky said that wasnt posted as i typed it up

 

[pistachio]

Watch some of my DL vids.
I grab the bar, bend down, leave my arse super high..........Just before I pull, I drop to the starting position, felx my lats, hold my shoulders back, then pull, all within a second.
Flexibilty has nothing to do with it.

As far as TNG, most raw lifters are weak off the floor, or not fast enough. Training from a dead stop will help.
Cant set up properly, can result in injury.
Not a true indicator of DL strength.

Arse high, drop, lock, pull (though in this, Im locking whilst coming down, so its not as apparent)

PTC Brisbane - Scott pulls 302kg WR @ GPC Worlds. - YouTube

Interesting, again, I'll try that out next week.

Oddly enough, I am strongest off the floor. Even at 240kgs, I have plenty of speed.

Also, you mentioned you drop the bar.
Make sure you limit strap use and that you GRIP the bar not just GRAB it.

Watch how I twist my grip into the bar. Ill never drop one.

Yeah, I very rarely use straps (although I am considering using them if I try for 260kgs in 2 weeks, if I'm feeling confident). I do occasionally use them for heavy sets of 5 if I feel like my grip is going to fail and result in me ripping off callouses.

I don't have chalk either, I'm not sure if I'm allowed to use it at my gym, but this would probably help considerably.

Generally, I get a pretty good grip on the bar, sometimes the bar spins in my hands tho (fuck knows why). The bars at my gym have an odd tendency to spin when you lift them. If i get a REALLY good grip, I can usually stop it, but sometimes, no matter how well you grip it, they just start spinning (even at as light as 140kgs).

When I say I drop it, that is only occasionally if my grip fails. Otherwise I lower it at normal speed. This is not so much of a problem now though, I think my grip has strengthened up considerably.

 

[wingman]

Sticky: This may sound retarded but how do you teach novices to flex lats. Ive noticed some beginners just dont really know how to "activate" some muscle groups.

 

[Sticky]

Make sure they can do strict rows ect...

Once they can I get them to set up, and poke and prod until they can flex their lats. It's just a mind muscle thing, just takes practice.

 

[Bazza20]

With your grip if you are not using chalk I would say your grip probably isn't an issue.

I can grip 280+ no problem I've even done 200 in one hand but at footy training I really struggled to grip 170 with no chalk on a smooth bar and sweaty hands.