As a practising Muslim, and for the sake of maintaining overall peace and harmony within the society of which I live in, I am prepared to forgo all foods that I deem not permissible for me to eat. I find it extremely strange and very unhelpful, that non-Muslims are creating some noise, (supposedly) on my behalf, on behalf of the Muslims. By that I mean the following: be it ANZAC, or Christmas music/decoration or any non-Islamic commemoration or celebration, certain media outlets seem to always find a way of drumming up some (fallacious) religious based hysteria contrived garbage (again), on my behalf, when I did not ask for it! It's as if there is a hidden force with an agenda to cause mischief and disharmony between the Muslim and the non-Muslim community in this country. Frankly, I'm sick of it!
A lot of meat slaughterers are halal trained, right? Ingham says its chickens are halal. I guess they've managed to train their machines up to halal standard too.
Both. We have a Muslim community radio station here in Sydney, and more often than not, we are the last ones to know/find out form other sources (usually the talk back radio stations 2GB and 2UE) that some Muslim (who no one knows or have heard of) has been renting on these two stations about his dislike or disagreement of the way things are conducted (Christmas is a classic one)!I think I can appreciate where you're coming from Fadi.
But by media outlets creating un-necessary tension around such event like Xmas / ANZAC or whatever, do you feel that they seem to somehow make it about Islam directly or in-directly?
The answer is yes, yes we would be killing each other. Because even though we have an innocence about us brother, we also have other attributes that drives us to commit all sorts of atrocities when these type of attributes go uncontrolled. Attributes such as greed, envy, jealousy, and hate..., or even love itself, when that love exceeds certain limits and becomes an element of misguidance and a hindrance, rather than guidance and a way forward to a mutual point of respect and understanding.Imagine if we all could have such an innocent view of the world. Would we really be killing each other over land, money, religion, the historic grudges of our forefathers.
It's like the blind leading the blind. Most people don't know what halal is, but they know they're against it.
All foods are labelled halal if they are, so you can clearly see if a certain food is or isn't. The broader definition of "halal" for muslims is something which is allowed. So this could be drinking clean water or watching a certain TV show. When it comes to meat, it means that the animal was slaughtered in regards to a certain procedure. The procedure is something along the lines of the animal should be quickly slaughtered via the neck and the blood to be drained. This originates from preventing blood from pooling or using sick animals, which can result in diseased meat.
Sorry bud way off the mark...
In oz
The animal has its slit throat while it faces Mecca by a Muslim practicioner while words about Mohammed are spoken.....Then another person immediately puts a bolt straight through the animals brain to give it a quick death and reduce suffering...
Over seas its all the same however there is no quick kill from the bolt.... And the animal suffers a cruel death...
Hey brother, where did you get this information from? I'm curious if you don't mind. Thank you.
Would you mind pointing out the step/s you disagree with based on the several points which you've raised in your post? I'd like to learn something here. Again, thank you.
Pretty much what was already discussed. If you don't follow Islam, who cares which way an animal is facing when it dies.The animal has its slit throat while it faces Mecca by a Muslim practicioner while words about Mohammed are spoken.
This depends on the animal and individual practices of abattoirs. For larger animals that are hard to control and take a while to bleed out, it can be more efficient. Otherwise, it's unnecessary.Then another person immediately puts a bolt straight through the animals brain to give it a quick death and reduce suffering...
Giiday Fadi
Knowledge on aus halal came from working with halal meat in Australia and Aqis and the operations in our kill houses/ abattoirs...
Comments regarding cruelty relate to the videos out of Indonesia of the halal killings...
Pretty much what was already discussed. If you don't follow Islam, who cares which way an animal is facing when it dies.
This depends on the animal and individual practices of abattoirs. For larger animals that are hard to control and take a while to bleed out, it can be more efficient. Otherwise, it's unnecessary.
The shot to the head or the stunning doesn't really affect the suffering. As I said in a previous post, once the main artery to the brain is sliced, the animal loses consciousness.
Okay thanks.
1. "words about Mohammed are spoken", is not correct brother. That's blasphemy here. Words such as in the name of God, or God is Great, yes, but nothing to do with prophet Muhammad (pbuh) here, ever!
2. "puts a bolt straight through the animals brain to give it a quick death", that would be irony in the extreme brother. The idea and this whole fuss over halal or not halal stems from the stun gun or bolt or whatever. Why? Because the whole idea is to have the animal 100% alive without even a 0.01% chance that it died due to stunning. Dead animals are Haram in Islam. So this whole controversy has stemmed based on the possibility that the stunning of the animal has a potential/possibility to kill it before its throat is slit.
3. "Over seas its all the same however there is no quick kill from the bolt.... And the animal suffers a cruel death", perhaps overseas in Indonesia, and only with imported live meat from Oz, otherwise the idea of stunning is a 100% foreign idea to Muslims worldwide. And we don't believe that the animal suffers when its throat is slit, or at least, it doesn't suffer the way a stunned animal suffers. Appearances can be deceiving.
Here's a copy paste which some may find very interesting indeed. Read with an open mind and decide for yourself please. Thank you.
Is Islamic slaughter cruel?
The question of how an animal should be slaughtered toavoid cruelty is a different one. It is true that when the blood flows from thethroat of an animal it looks violent, but just because meat is now boughtneatly and hygienically packaged on supermarket shelves does not mean theanimal didn’t have to die? Non-Islamic slaughter methods dictate that theanimal should be rendered unconscious before slaughter. This is usuallyachieved by stunning or electrocution. Is it less painful to shoot a bolt intoa sheep’s brain or to ring a chicken’s neck than to slit its throat? To watchthe procedure does not objectively tell us what the animal feels.
The scientific facts
A team at the university of Hannover in Germany examined these claims through the use of EEG and ECG records during slaughter.Several electrodes were surgically implanted at various points of the skull ofall the animals used in the experiment and they were then allowed to recoverfor several weeks. Some of the animals were subsequently slaughtered the halalway by making a swift, deep incision with a sharp knife on the neck, cuttingthe jugular veins and carotid arteries of both sides together with the tracheaand esophagus but leaving the spinal cord intact. The remainder were stunnedbefore slaughter using a captive bolt pistol method as is customary in Westernslaughterhouses. The EEG and ECG recordings allowed to monitor the condition ofthe brain and heart throughout. http://www.mustaqim.co.uk/halalstudy.htm
The Halal method
With the halal method of slaughter, there was notchange in the EEG graph for the first three seconds after the incision wasmade, indicating that the animal did not feel any pain from the cut itself.This is not surprising. Often, if we cut ourselves with a sharp implement, wedo not notice until some time later. The following three seconds werecharacterised by a condition of deep sleep-like unconciousness brought about bythe draining of large quantities of blood from the body.Thereafter the EEG recorded a zero reading,indicating no pain at all, yet at that time the heart was still beating and thebody convulsing vigorously as a reflex reaction of the spinal cord. It is thisphase which is most unpleasant to onlookers who are falsely convinced that theanimal suffers whilst its brain does actually no longer record any sensualmessages.
The Western method
Using the Western method, the animals were apparentlyunconscious after stunning, and this method of dispatch would appear to be muchmore peaceful for the onlooker. However, the EEG readings indicated severe painimmediately after stunning. Whereas in the first example, the animal ceases tofeel pain due to the brain starvation of blood and oxygen – a brain death, toput it in laymen’s terms – the second example first causes a stoppage of theheart whilst the animal still feels pain. However, there are no unsightlyconvulsions, which not only means that there is more blood retention in themeat, but also that this method lends itself much more conveniently to theefficiency demands of modern mass slaughter procedures. It is so much easier todispatch an animal on the conveyor belt, if it does not move.
Appearances can deceive
Not all is what it seems, then. Those who want tooutlaw Islamic slaughter, arguing for a humane method of killing animals forfood, are actually more concerned about the feelings of people than those ofthe animals on whose behalf they appear to speak. The stunning method makesmass butchery easier and looks more palatable for the consumer who can deceivehimself that the animal did not feel any pain when he goes to buy his cleanlywrapped parcel of meat from the supermarket. Islamic slaughter, on the otherhand, does not try to deny that meat consumption means that animals have todie, but is designed to ensure that their loss of life is achieved with aminimum amount of pain.
Fadi
My apologies in reference to Mohammed...
It should be a reference to Allah...
The words spoken are " in the name of Allah" and "Allah is great"
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-08/kindness-in-killing-is-the-muslim-way/5439542
Brother I know who you are and who I'm dealing with here okay. No need for an apology. We're two mature men having an exchange of ideas, in a respectful manner. I can't ask for more than that. Also, thank you for the link.
Nope.... Aus law requires bolt to the head immediately following the slit throat
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