Rugby88
I have Ep1c Calendar kunce
.............its now all about eating the protein 1st on your plate for better body composition.............
Hahahahahahahahhahaha
Beginner Fitness
Hahahahahahahahhahaha
Beginner Fitness
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Forget meal timing, 6 meals, 3 meals, Pre/post workout meals
El Testicle
Goat that feeling
lol... lost me about 2 paragraphs in... wtf?
Repacked
Punxsutawney resident
WoodyAllen
Well-known member
What a complete load of
Fadi
...
216 references of brilliance. That's what I've been saying in the past few months on the forum. Thank you so much for the upload big R.
Hi mate, looking for your opinion on something carb timing related as I know you've mentioned quite a bit about it in a few other threads
There seems to be a lot of conflicting information about insulin's role in the anabolic/hypertrophy response and it's relationship with growth hormones.
Berkhan/Keto and Fasting enthusiasts all say you don't want to have insulin too high for too long (or at all) because it blunts growth hormones which is not ideal for hypertrophy/anabolism
Many many others say you want to spike insulin through the roof 3 times a day to improve protein synthesis and muscle repair growth. They even advocate the complete removal of fats from your first 3 meals of the day in order to keep insulin as high as possible (whilst also promoting a further 3 meals of low carb high fat later in the day, this is when you're body gets a break from the insulin as to not become insulin resistant). Many of the same people maintain that you're doing yourself an immense disservice if you do not spike insulin within an hour or 2 of resistance training as your body's most primed for protein synthesis in this window.
The way I figure it I've successfully harnessed the power of low insulin to improve fat burning (lipolysis) so it's equally plausible that high insulin could be responsible for improved hypertrophy results.
Once I get down to about 83kgs (currently 86kg) I'm looking forward to experimenting with a high carb, high protein post workout meal but keeping LCHF otherwise. See if it makes a difference.
Going to buy some fat calipers and measuring tape to really get scientific on this
I'm pretty sure you've done full write ups on carb timing and post workout meals but I can't remember where.
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Fadi
...
Hi mate, looking for your opinion on something carb timing related as I know you've mentioned quite a bit about it in a few other threads
There seems to be a lot of conflicting information about insulin's role in the anabolic/hypertrophy response and it's relationship with growth hormones.
Berkhan/Keto and Fasting enthusiasts all say you don't want to have insulin too high for too long (or at all) because it blunts growth hormones which is not ideal for hypertrophy/anabolism
Many many others say you want to spike insulin through the roof 3 times a day to improve protein synthesis and muscle repair growth. They even advocate the complete removal of fats from your first 3 meals of the day in order to keep insulin as high as possible (whilst also promoting a further 3 meals of low carb high fat later in the day, this is when you're body gets a break from the insulin as to not become insulin resistant). Many of the same people maintain that you're doing yourself an immense disservice if you do not spike insulin within an hour or 2 of resistance training as your body's most primed for protein synthesis in this window.
The way I figure it I've successfully harnessed the power of low insulin to improve fat burning (lipolysis) so it's equally plausible that high insulin could be responsible for improved hypertrophy results.
Once I get down to about 83kgs (currently 86kg) I'm looking forward to experimenting with a high carb, high protein post workout meal but keeping LCHF otherwise. See if it makes a difference.
Going to buy some fat calipers and measuring tape to really get scientific on this
I'm pretty sure you've done full write ups on carb timing and post workout meals but I can't remember where.
After reading the not so old science, and comparing it with the new science, then comparing both with real world results, I feel very confident in dealing with this subject. I have also done LCHF as you are doing now (as well as trying different diet/lifestyle way of eating) over the years. My only question to you is this: would you like me to dissect your above post and reply to it that way, or would you like to ask me one or two direct question/s at a time and have me deal with it that way? I'm here to share my knowledge with you with pleasure, so you let me know how you'd like us to proceed please. Thank you.
Happy for you to dissect the above if that's not too much trouble.
Fadi
...
This will be much easier than you think sir, as you're already a LCHF lifestyle man. I'll expand on that in few minutes...
If you're over 25 (and I've got a feeling you are), then being on a LCHF eating style has already won you 3/4 of the battle. What battle is that? The battle, make that the modern battle our professionals have termed syndrome X. Fine all over yet looking like you're about 7 month pregnant (and we strictly talking men here). So both of us know, this issue is hormonal rather than being a couch potato or similar. That's where insulin comes in, and that's where you with your LCHF lifestyle, is heading on a bright syndrome x free journey, hopefully avoiding most all our modern health issues.
Based on your last few words here, I understand from that that someone is making an association between HGH and muscle growth. I tend not to agree with that line of thinking based on what I've read over the years regarding this hormone, and that to call it "Growth Hormone" is actually a misnomer as far as the purpose of bodybuilding is concerned. Read bit of this if you like: http://www.hardbodysuccessblog.com/my_weblog/2010/12/anti-aging-hormone-can-we-stimulate-it.html
Come to think of it, even insulin (which I've called King Anabolic) since I've joined this forum, has its role also been misunderstood somewhat. I'll get to that shortly...
So basically this hormone insulin has been treated like a football of sort, everyone wants to have a kick at it, yet differ immensely as to its real physiological action in our body.
I don't need to tell you that insulin is a non-discriminative type of a hormone, i.e. it will happily help you pile on the muscles, but it also sees fat as a goodie. After all, it's our number one storage hormone, what else would one expect from it but doing what it does best!
According to Doctor Donald Layman PhD, we become more and more insulin resistant as we age. No, that does not mean we stop easting any type of carbohydrates, but according to the doctor, there is a threshold of 30gm/meal, or 40gm/meal if you exercise. Going beyond these level would invite fat synthesis, something you want to keep under your control (by controlling insulin's release/spike). So for someone who is already on a LCHF eating style, the optimal time to ingest the maximum amount of carbohydrates would be post workout. Why is that? Because at this time, our cells responsiveness to the hormone insulin has become more sensitive, and the insulin receptors (doors) would happily open up and spread their arms to welcome insulin in, with whatever its shuttle/delivery service happens to be carrying at the time (within the blood). This is no time to get fat, not when you've just primed your muscles for accepting a load of energy/carbs.
I know your concern in your post revolves mainly around the carbohydrates timing factor, however what you need to know also, is the fact that insulin and the amino acid Leucine interact to stimulate protein synthesis, particularly in skeletal muscle (where we're interested). Now that should give you a hint of the importance in combining protein and carbohydrate, even though from a stimulatory effect, Leucine has the ability to spike insulin all by itself. As if to say you know what, there's this man known as showdownhero on some forum, and he prefers to keep his carbs to a bare minimum, how can he then stimulate some insulin release in order to shuttle some extremely essential amino acids into his blood....enter king Leucine!
That goes without saying Champion.
Guaranteed it would make a difference, and I'm not just throwing words at you here, but can back them up based on yet another doctor/athlete who has a similar lifestyle to you. And he affirms that even though LCHF or even Keto which he is a fan of, he admits that carbs act like a powerful energetic drug of sort when it comes to our muscles. The name of this Doctor if you're interested is Dr Peter Attia. http://eatingacademy.com/
I wish you all the very best with that.Going to buy some fat calipers and measuring tape to really get scientific on this
So many threads throughout the forum. I'm now very much interested in the timing of protein, the quality of protein, and the quantity of protein based on its amino acid Leucine content. Once that macro is covered, I then move onto carbohydrate and see where best to slot them in throughout the day. Once that is covered, I look at my overall caloric intake need and complete the picture by slotting in the fatty acids macronutrient. LCHF ought to be renamed LCHGF (G for Good).
Take care.
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You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to [MENTION=2727]Fadi[/MENTION] again.
Thanks a lot mate, very much appreciated.
Thanks a lot mate, very much appreciated.
I've also read that post workout caffeine decreases insulin sensitivity so I'm gonna cut that out too.
Fadi
...
Brother I came back to the forum to share something else with you when I saw your post re caffeine. So I'll address the caffeine bit first before I share with you what I wanted to share.
Please do not look at the correlation made between caffeine and insulin on the surface level. If you do, you'll fail to see the wisdom behind the message. But first thing's first. Why would you want to take caffeine post workout when It's more beneficial pre-workout. OK Fadi, why is that so? It's exactly for the reason you've mentioned and the reason that somewhat turned you off it. What reason is that so we're clear? Caffeine's effect in decreasing insulin's sensitivity. OK, now for the fun bit where we don't just read the words, but reflect upon the message.
You see sir, we both know that caffeine is great for losing fat, and it does that by mobilising it/breaking it down/releasing it from wherever it is and injecting it right into our blood stream where we can use/burn it for energy. Well fine mate, so what? So the reason behind this decrease in insulin's sensitivity is to allow for such a release. For if we were insulin sensitive instead a bit on the resistant side of the fence, fat release will not occur. So it's this very decrease in sensitivity at the time caffeine is consumed, that causes and eventually end up resulting in fat mobilisation and burning, whilst at the same time, conserving our reserved fuel (the one we want) and that is muscle glycogen.
So yes, it's a full on drug, making your body work against the norm, which is to burn mainly glucose via the breakdown of your glycogen stores but no...., instead (and thanks to this manipulative favour done by caffeine), we now end up preserving more of our stored muscle glycogen, whilst facilitating a release of some fatty acids that each and every muscle fiber contains within. So not only do you get an energy boost from caffeine, but also an effect where fat burning is maximised, whilst preserving muscle glycogen, something a LCHF man would or should welcome with open arms, would you not agree with me Sir?
Let's take a totally different direction from where we were just heading a second ago shall we. Post workout, your main aim ought to be treating your sympathetic nervous system like you would your crying baby. This is the fight or flight system that caffeine does a good job in stimulating. Your aim here is to calm things right down, all the way from your heart rate to your blood pressure reading. This is now a time for resting, relaxing, and digesting of the food you're about to put into your God given machine. That system (as I'm sure you know), is called the parasympathetic system, where everyone here likes to be nice and quite thank you very much. Think nightclub on one hand, and a study library on the other if you like
OK, now to why I came here in the first place.
Post workout, what you want to put into your body is some BCAA, prior to whey protein and carbs. Simply put, because by doing so you would instantly create and accentuate the anabolic environment, whilst simultaneously minimising on the catabolic one (the stress you just went through during your workout). It's all about timing here. So immediately after the workout whilst still breathing heavily and perspiring, down the hatch goes the BCAA. Once at home or right after a shower, goes in the whey protein and the carbohydrates. I hope you're not bored. Thanks for reading brother and all power to you.
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