Fluffy crosses to the darkside for a bit.

[Goosey]

Interesting, so basically the opposite way to how the bench is taught by most people. Pinning the shoulder blades back.

Yes!

It's all about feeling the muscles.

For the shoulder to move its needs all of the connecting muscles to move to stabilize the shoulder.

This is why I suggest that if one wants to compete they need to perform "exercise" as well.

Polke is right.

But for shoulder health you need to consider what I'm saying to you.

 

[Bella]

Chineses massage rub without the tug, some accupuncture. Semi reguarly twice a month for the last two months. Relieves the pain but doesn't really fix anything. The therapist worked it so hard last ime I had doms in my tricep for a 3 days. It is great but I don't think it fixes anything.

well you didn't get the tug, that'd be yer problem right thar

depends on what the actual damage is? A remedial massage therapist is specifically trained in Sports Injury Therapy. Same basic principals as physiotherapy training. But concentrates on recovery and continued therapeutic maintenance.

A chinese massage is predominantly pressure point therapy and along with various shiatsu techniques, it's often painful, which makes people think that it's doing something, but it's simply bruising surface tissue so you have 'tissue DOMS' for a few days afterwards. Certainly gets the blood flowing and toxins moving out of the body, but for specific injury it's pretty useless.

acupuncture I have no idea about, but have heard good things. Whilst you can concentrate on continued warming of the joint and mobility work - I really think some regular appointments with a physio or Remedial Massage Therapist would help you. They will treat the specific injury over a few sessions and you really should start to feel an improvement in mobility in the area fairly immediately?

If you have private health cover, you'll get most of your $ back, or it's part of your 'extra's' cover, that bonus amount you get each year? If you have it, use it.

If not, a good Remedial Massage Therapist will set you back around $60-$80 for an hour long session - if you go a couple of times in the month, you really should start to feel a massive difference almost straight away. If they're any good, they'll do a mixture of Sports Therapy, cross fibre technique, lymphatic drainage and deep tissue. The problem with 'cold injuries' is that the blood is no longer rushing to the site to assist in repairing ligament/tissue/nerve damage - it's the RMT's job to ensure that blood flow to the site is optimal, that excess lymphatic fluid is drained and that continued repair has an optimal environment to occur for you.

If lost completely, you may come to the clinic of Bella, located in Brisbane just outside of the CBD and I will work on it a couple of times a month for you, for free -just to see if we can get any improvement for you? No happy endings lol

Totally up to you, but the offer is there if you get stuck.

 

[Brick]

If lost completely, you may come to the clinic of Bella, located in Brisbane just outside of the CBD and I will work on it a couple of times a month for you, for free -just to see if we can get any improvement for you? No happy endings lol

Totally up to you, but the offer is there if you get stuck.

Thanks for the offer, but lets be honest this will only end with me trussed up in a ball gag and you calling some friends to come over cause the spider has couple flies in the web.

 

[Bella]

Thanks for the offer, but lets be honest this will only end with me trussed up in a ball gag and you calling some friends to come over cause the spider has couple flies in the web.

lmfao

Not true.

But your call.

 

[chocchillimango]

totally agree with Bella.

re acupuncture .. it depends on who the therapist is and the focus of their practice to some extent.
But overall, I've had it to assist on a number of injuries and issues over time and have pretty much always found that it is of greatest benefit when there are muscles or tendons/soft tissue that is spasmed, tight, whatever.
Best way acupuncture can complement other therapies such as physio and massage is to help release soft tissue in order to enable other methods to fix the problem or improve it over time.

that's just based on my experience frankly but the doctor I got to for the acupuncture treatment seems to agree with that pretty much.

 

[Bazza20]

Yes!

It's all about feeling the muscles.

For the shoulder to move its needs all of the connecting muscles to move to stabilize the shoulder.

This is why I suggest that if one wants to compete they need to perform "exercise" as well.

Polke is right.

But for shoulder health you need to consider what I'm saying to you.

And then the common reason stated for pinning the shoulder blades back in the bench is for shoulder health. Again interesting.

 

[Goosey]

Fascinating isn't it.

 

[Brick]

Alright 20 posts deep and only Bull and DKD have given any programme suggestions, Thankyou very much gents, I am going to give the below programme a run for 6 or so weeks and see how I feel about it after that.

DAY #1
Legs:
Back Squats - warm up set 4 sets 8-10
SLDL x 3 x 6 -8
Calf Raise x 4 x 10
DAY#2
Shoulders and Traps:
Military Press x 5 sets 6-8
DB Seated Rear Lat raises x 3 x 10
Shrugs Barbell x 4 x 10
DAY #3
Back:
Deadlift x 5 x 5 (never gonna do high rep deads)
Chin up moderate grip x 4 to failure
Pendlay Row x 3 x 8
One Arm Rows x 3 x 20
Biceps:
Standing EZ bar curl x 3
Hammer Curl x 3
Reverse Grip EZ Curl x 1
DAY#4
Chest: (provided my shoulder is co-operating)
Close Grip Bench Press x 4 x 8 -10
Decline Bench Press barbell x 4 x 8 -10
Triceps:
Dips x 3
Skull Crushes x 3

 

[jj80]

Interesting, so basically the opposite way to how the bench is taught by most people. Pinning the shoulder blades back.

Yeah this sounds like insane advice. Everyone's different though I guess. Movement of scapula on the bench = shoulder death for me.

Fluffy have you tried limited range benching or floor presses. Also, wide grip bench with the bar hitting the chest 1 inch lower than usual helped me a lot more than close grip (close tears my shoulders to pieces) despite the usual dogma to the contrary. Guessing you tried flyes as well (not that these are usually easy at all on the shoulders...)

Your workout looks ok, I'd do something similar. Chins should hit the chest a little. I might skip on the close grip as it sounds like you have a ROM issue and closer = more ROM (elbows dipping really low)

And see a physio if you haven't already. I stopped sports for 4 months due to an injury I thought needed time alone. Physio fixed me up in a day. Fuck I felt like an idiot after that.

 

[Brick]

Fluffy have you tried limited range benching or floor presses. Also, wide grip bench with the bar hitting the chest 1 inch lower than usual helped me a lot more than close grip (close tears my shoulders to pieces) despite the usual dogma to the contrary. Guessing you tried flyes as well (not that these are usually easy at all on the shoulders...)

Your workout looks ok, I'd do something similar. Chins should hit the chest a little. I might skip on the close grip as it sounds like you have a ROM issue and closer = more ROM (elbows dipping really low)

And see a physio if you haven't already. I stopped sports for 4 months due to an injury I thought needed time alone. Physio fixed me up in a day. Fuck I felt like an idiot after that.

Close grip is much better than conventional, rapes the elbows a bit but seems easier on the shoulder more tri less chest sorta thing.

Flyes I don't do at all, haven't done for years.

I have spent many hours in physios over the years and never had the ****s fix anything. There might be good physios out there but I am yet to meet any. When I first fucked up my shoulder 3 and a bit years ago I took a 3-4 month break from any lifting at all. I spent close to 5 years swinging a hammer a million times a day and I suspect this plays a decent part in making my right shoulder alot more prone to injury and overuse problems.

 

[Goosey]

I don't really want to get into an argument about this but if you, fluffy- find that you can do the bench press with the narrow grip then that is far smarter than using a wider grip and limiting the range of movement.

As an exercise the bench press is a great for development for the upper body, but I still stand by my concerns about the shoulder blades being pinned against the bench.

For the power lifter, you do what you can to get body in the best position to move the weight in the most efficiant manner.

 

[Goosey]

I think most Physio's are important to consult because more often than not, self diagnosis is dangerous.
Physio's go through a process of identifying the issue, but most of them I feel have the wrong view on rehab.
They want to see you come back.

 

[0ni]

If I was in your position I would just do a shitload of arm work and rear delt work
You'll also be a close grip bencher from now on

But if you do loads of tricep and rear delt hypertrophy work and gain a tonne of weight - your bench will improve even if you're not training it. Decline reverse grip bench is a good way to train the triceps heavy as fuck without straining the shoulder. You can also look into a slingshot or reverse band bench press (close grip obviously) as this will take the pressure off where you need it. Benching against bands is a bad idea probably so bench with them

I also agree with the shoulder blades being pinned against the bench. This is done to make the exercise safer. It makes it safer than just lying on the bench but it is not safer than the scapulae being able to freely retract and depress which is impossible if you're lying on a bench. This is possible with push-ups. Monohar Aich got jacked as fuck doing (as far as I can tell) doing 100 rep sets of one-legged squats, pushups, crunches, pullups, and leg raises all day long [lewis]. He won the 1952 Mr. Olympia and here he is age 75.

Gymnasts are also jacked as fuck and almost never weight train. They also never complain of shoulder injuries. Can't do sets of 100 push-ups and dips? You got work to do son.

inb4 someone states that working up to 100 reps on an exercise while gaining weight can't possibly work as you're not using 6-12 reps or some other bullshit

 

[John_Citizen]

Monohar Aich won the 1952 Mr. Olympia

whilst there are a number of members in here, whose posts I class as pearls of wisdom, yes you are one of those 0ni, surely you jest that Monohar Aich won the 1952 Mr Olympia. Larry Scott won the first Mr Olympia in 1965 did he not.

 

[Brick]

If I was in your position I would just do a shitload of arm work and rear delt work
You'll also be a close grip bencher from now on

But if you do loads of tricep and rear delt hypertrophy work and gain a tonne of weight - your bench will improve even if you're not training it. Decline reverse grip bench is a good way to train the triceps heavy as fuck without straining the shoulder. You can also look into a slingshot or reverse band bench press (close grip obviously) as this will take the pressure off where you need it. Benching against bands is a bad idea probably so bench with them

I also agree with the shoulder blades being pinned against the bench. This is done to make the exercise safer. It makes it safer than just lying on the bench but it is not safer than the scapulae being able to freely retract and depress which is impossible if you're lying on a bench. This is possible with push-ups. Monohar Aich got jacked as fuck doing (as far as I can tell) doing 100 rep sets of one-legged squats, pushups, crunches, pullups, and leg raises all day long [lewis]. He won the 1952 Mr. Olympia and here he is age 75.


Gymnasts are also jacked as fuck and almost never weight train. They also never complain of shoulder injuries. Can't do sets of 100 push-ups and dips? You got work to do son.

inb4 someone states that working up to 100 reps on an exercise while gaining weight can't possibly work as you're not using 6-12 reps or some other bullshit

Always glad to hear from Jamie Lewis's microphone. Did you actually read the article before you cut and pasted it here? The reference to bodyweight training is out of context.

Oni 64.4kg bench 75kg 1.16 x bodyweight
Fluffy 82kg bench 117.5kg 1.43 x bodyweight, I consider my bench to be shit and I am old retarded and crippled.

Please return and give bench advice once you have benched 2 plates aside and/or have actually managed to gain some weight.

 

[0ni]

whilst there are a number of members in here, whose posts I class as pearls of wisdom, yes you are one of those 0ni, surely you jest that Monohar Aich won the 1952 Mr Olympia. Larry Scott won the first Mr Olympia in 1965 did he not.

Correction: Mr. Universe

Always glad to hear from Jamie Lewis's microphone. Did you actually read the article before you cut and pasted it here? The reference to bodyweight training is out of context.

Oni 64.4kg bench 75kg 1.16 x bodyweight
Fluffy 82kg bench 117.5kg 1.43 x bodyweight, I consider my bench to be shit and I am old retarded and crippled.

Please return and give bench advice once you have benched 2 plates aside and/or have actually managed to gain some weight.

Why are you so mad? It's not out of context at all. Body weight training can get you jacked and it's very easy on the joints. If you can't recognise that you're either blind or your dodgy shoulder has started to infect your brain

 

[Brick]

Why are you so mad? It's not out of context at all. Body weight training can get you jacked and it's very easy on the joints. If you can't recognise that you're either blind or your dodgy shoulder has started to infect your brain

Your right bro I'm just cyber bullying.

I think 100 pushups is no problem, although it puts a fair bit of stress on the joint I could blast 100 pu's. 100 dips I'm not so sure about, if your doing 100 dips I think your to light or not going deep enough.

I think I can maintain an ok bench no probs just by OHP, rows and some close grip benching. I used to use a closeish grip when I was right into bodybuilding and had really strong tris as a consequence. I only moved away from it when I started training more for strength.

 

[0ni]

Top gymnasts can literally do 100s of dips. You won't be able to crack open 100 straight away obviously but it the trying to get there that gives the gains. It was Dave that told me that I was best off not worrying about my pec size and chase a 140kg bench for 20 reps. Probably unachievable, but trying to do so will give me big pecs pretty guaranteed

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbxEdnDrIk0]Barilla and Hannibal - YouTube[/ame]

 

[bams_101]

I wouldnt personally do dips if there was issues with the shoulder. Can put the shoulder in a bad position at the bottom ROM where there is a decreased amount of subacromial space which can lead to impingement. Same with close grip upright rows. Top gymnasts are on the extreme side of the bell curve and while they can perform absolutely amazing movements, others may not me able to.

I sort of agree with Goosey about the scapula being pinned back against the bench being a bad thing IF there isnt any scapular protraction involved on the same day. When there is dysfunction/pain in the shoulder you can almost guarantee there will be some serratus anterior imbalances. Push up plus' and pullovers are are good to counteract this.

I think if you wanted to continue benching without the possibility of aggravating the shoulder any exercises that limit the bottom shoulder rotation ROM would be good, floor presses and decline presses with grips all within the rings would be a couple.

We have your bench numbers, what are your OHP and back (chins, rows) lifts like?? d be more than happy to help you out on some programming mate. Just need to know more =)

PS heres a new article by Smitty from the Diesel Crew about bench on Arnies new site

Bench Press 101 | Arnold Schwarzenegger

 

[0ni]

Anyone else agree that the snatch is probably the best shoulder health / mobility exercise you can do?
>dat der external rotation
>dat der serratus anterior action
>dat der range of motion