Does Olympic weightlifting build strength?

[PowerBuilder]

Fwiw I am like Vasily Alekseyev, I never squat more than 270kg.

 

[Darkoz]

How long have you been lifting for now Oni, what 9 or 10 months?

 

[PowerBuilder]

Fadi left the AIS around the time of Oni's birth.

 

[Darkoz]

Fadi left the AIS around the time of Oni's birth.

And they didn't even have the internet then

 

[0ni]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plpvWZB8ae0]?????? ??????? ?? ?? ?? ????????????? AWPC_WPC. - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Darkoz]

So, How long have you been lifting for now Oni, what 9 or 10 months?

 

[Goosey]

I don't know wht the hell is going on in this thread.

But fadi, are you saying that speed and strength is not an element of power and if not are you saying that seed and strength need to be trained seperatly?

A yes or no is enough, I dont need to debate it with you.

 

[0ni]

To summarize both sides of the argument:

For maximum effort method in weightlifting:
The old time greats all employed it, including those that hold records unbroken for 20 years
Many current record holders employ it, including the Chinese, Koklyaev, Klokov etc
Maximal strength is the prerequisite to all other types of strength, including speed-strength
Makes smaller weights feel lighter

Against maximum effort method in weightlifting:
Doesn't carry over directly to speed-strength, speed-strength needs to still be trained independently

 

[Fadi]

I don't know wht the hell is going on in this thread..

I'll make it easy for you in a sec strong man...

But fadi, are you saying that speed and strength is not an element of power

No, I'm saying the exact opposite in fact.

and if not are you saying that seed and strength need to be trained seperatly?

As above.

A yes or no is enough,

I hear you big man...

I dont need to debate it with you

Definitely not!


Fadi.

 

[Goosey]

Lol

 

[bradsky]

let me compare apples and oranges.

so you want to get good at eating apples eh.

eating oranges will make you better at eating apples.

but eating apples will make you better at eating apples.

so are you saying that eating oranges wont make you better at eating apples?

no, I am saying that why eat oranges if you have a ton of apples right here.

but you could eat apples and oranges

well, I guess you could.

THE END.

 

[RyanF]

Thank you for your observation Ryan. I have failed to mention that a weightlifter is very successful in driving up out of the hole only up to a certain weight. Meaning, after the weight on the bar begins to exceed a certain level, the weightlifter's attention would automatically shift to focusing on form... as one can lose form much easier with a heavier weight than not.

While we're at it, I can think of two other reasons for not choosing heavy deadlifts over heavy pulls.

1. The deadlift does not simulate the weightlifter’s pull in all its facets.
2. The extra heavy weight (that is argued for) would make it virtually impossible to maintain good lifting form.

Now some may wish to argue the second point. But I can only speak from my experience and the experience of other weightlifters when I say that even with only a 10% or so increase over one’s 1RM in the pulling exercises, the lifter can lose form. That is why even after years of training, the coach who seems to be just walking around in the lifting area doing nothing, is all about observing correct form.

Furthermore (and I’ve mentioned this before), Ivan Abadjiev got rid of the pulls even, for fear of the lifter getting in the wrong groove/path one rep after another.


Fadi.

And thank you for the reply, and further elaboration and clarification. I guess that also relates to how the heavy singles done in training for squats are typically 10-15% below actual 1RM, or at least so I'm told.

 

[Jonno_aus]

Bill Starr reckons deadlifts are useful for everyone including weightlifters....but sparingly. And says that after learning it and building a solid base that every 2nd week is enough for the lift for most people.

After all, he did set a national deadlift record by not actually doing the lift and got the back strength from just from his weightlifting routine of snatches, pulls etc.

302 kg at a body weight of 90 kg. That's over 3.3 x body weight.




How all this applies to the thread I don't know. Regardless, I love Bill Starr. I wish I was his love child.

 

[Fadi]

And thank you for the reply, and further elaboration and clarification. I guess that also relates to how the heavy singles done in training for squats are typically 10-15% below actual 1RM, or at least so I'm told.

Your demeanour is very much appreciated by me Ryan, thank you. Now to give you some facts re what you have written above if you don’t mind Sir.

1. Olympic weightlifters never perform heavy single squats in their day to day training. Repetitions for a weightlifter range from high reps of 5 (that’s high for a weightlifter), to low reps of 2s. Most of the time you would find weightlifters performing 3 reps during their sets.

2. Now coming to the issue of performing single squats. That is done when a weightlifter is testing for yet another 1RM in order to base his lifts’ percentages around that maximum weight. Please keep in mind that the adrenaline level during those 1RM sessions is simply phenomenal; perhaps simulating the same atmosphere one feels during a weightlifting competition.

Just in case I have misunderstood you Ryan, I will further say this in regards to the 10-15% you’ve mentioned above. Now that we have established that weightlifters do not perform singles during their normal training, what kind of percentages do they usually perform? Well, that would usually depend on the time of the cycle and what type of week it is that they’re lifting in. For example, the week could call for high volume, or it could call for higher weight percentages to be lifted. Let me give you an example of (say) a high weight percentage coupled with low volume (less reps/ and or sets)

When my best back squat was 200kg, my squat sets may have looked like the following:
180kg 3x3
190kg 2x2
195 x2
Total working weight lifted = 2770kg

The above would constitute a percentage of 90%, 95%, and finally 97.5% of my 1RM that was 200kg at that time. The 180kg would feel very light and would see me in full control of it. It becomes more challenging as the weight increases from here yet still manageable. Sure the weight on the bar is heavy, but please keep in mind that the reps are very low, hence the recovery system is taken good care of. It would become much more stressful on one’s CNS when the lifter has a week that calls for high volume as well as high weight percentages. An example here may look like this Ryan:

190 5x3
195x2
Total working weight lifted = 3240kg

The difference between the first and the second workout is an increase by approximately 17%.

Although the increase has placed more stress on all bodily systems, that week is usually followed by a recovery/ish type of week to get one ready for yet another climb up the weightlifting mountain.

Take care Ryan and all the best to you.


Fadi.

 

[0ni]

They never perform heavy singles?
Are you sure about that fadi?
Not only did the Bulgarian's use their daily squat 1RM to base their entire training around the asian nations also regularly perform squat 1RMs, deadlifts too

A sample training | Stronger and Faster Than Yesterday

 

[PowerBuilder]

Olympic weightlifters never perform heavy single squats in their day to day training.

Do you read only what you want? I am admitantly a poor specimen....look in my training log...and tell me how often i do heavy singles. I am admittantly not a national, international or elite athlete. I train with a few though use use a similar training approach.


So you believe that the bulgarians do X,Y and Z but not a IFBB pro bodybuilder when he claims he's drug free? Do you believe everything you read, or is it just most stuff on the interwebs?

 

[wingman]

Do you compete Powerbuilder? If so, in what weight class?

 

[PowerBuilder]

Do you compete Powerbuilder? If so, in what weight class?

Compete in the 69kg class. Poor total right now due to havin to miss a lot of training sessions and competitions due to work stuff.

 

[Darkoz]

They never perform heavy singles?
Are you sure about that fadi?
Not only did the Bulgarian's use their daily squat 1RM to base their entire training around the asian nations also regularly perform squat 1RMs, deadlifts too

A sample training | Stronger and Faster Than Yesterday

Fadi is telling it like it is, He was an Olympic lifter who lived it, breathed it so it would be safe to say that he is sure that he knows what he's talking about and yet you question it.
Did you actually read that random site you linked to Oni?
Did you read the 'about me' of who the author of that site is?
I did, but couldn't stop laughing past the part where they recommend Kipping Pullups.

 

[Fadi]

Two days ago, you said the following:

Fadi: I will get to your posts in the morning as I don't have time right now

I’m still waiting!

Instead of getting back to me, today you chose to say the following about something else I wrote

They never perform heavy singles?

Are you sure about that fadi?

By the way Oni, my real name is Fadi and not fadi, please respect that Sir.

It appears to me that you're after an argument instead of a mature and fruitful man to man discussion, where perhaps some on here may benefit. After all, that's why we're all here, including myself. I’m not above learning, and I made that very clear here: One team: Ausbb

I was sincerely hoping that we could have a fruitful exchange of ideas between us, however I feel deeply saddened that that won’t come to fruition.

To the respectful and mature gentlemen on this thread/forum, I am at your service.


Fadi.