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Deadlift frequency and volume

If you are going to ask the question will strongman events help my deadlift- the answer will be yeah sure.
If you ask the question whether strongman training will be better than a PL template- well- I think you'll get another answer- but give it a go. Its telling that the top PLers I know of do PL specific work.
Yes the Ruskies do goodmornings. Thats my point- they build up sufficient strength following their templates which build mid-section strength and do so in a more effective way for their objectives- PL.

As I have said- strongman is full of guys with awesome deadlifts because pullling is a significant movement in strongman. The lifts they do often seem freaky because they pull from blocks with straps. Anyway- the best of these guys build their deadlifts the same way as the PLs. They just do a bunch of other stuff because strongman has a range of different events that require a wider range of skills and attributes than PL.

0ni said:
I cant logically dispute that deadlifts are the best way to increase your deadlift. I just think that a strong midsection is important as a base. Soro fed and bark are Russian so will undoubtedly do good mornings after most sessions if their training looks anything like most of the examples of russian programming. I will post on the rts forums asking if a strongman events day is a good way to train for the deadlift as i have already made my points. Specificity is undoubtedly king but i still believe you need a massive base to pull big and strongman seems a great way to do that and is justified by lots of big pulls in the sport. I posted a clint darden video in the sumo thread about the russians just being dtrong all over. I think the russians do strongman type stuff at school as well as gymnastics or at least do as many different sports as possible to build that base. I will look that up later its in "the development of the russian conjugate system" by tom myslinski if anyone can look that up

Apologies to err one for getting so revved up about he issue but it always rustles the jimmies when people bring up drugs
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Russian training system is basically a big gpp base with increased volume and specialization over the years
 
0ni said:
Russian training system is basically a big gpp base with increased volume and specialization over the years
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yes- but Oni- this does not make their training strongman training does it?
Nor does it show that strongman training is better than PL training- does it?
 
We need to define what powerlifting specific midsection exercises are. I personally think gpp is gpp and deliberatly unspecific
 
0ni said:
We need to define what powerlifting specific midsection exercises are. I personally think gpp is gpp and deliberatly unspecific
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I was not disagreeing with you about gpp. I did not say gpp will not help.
I did not say do not do exercises for the mid-section.

I said that the strongman training will be no better than powerlifting training for bringing up your deadlift. In fact, I'd suggest that PL training probably provides an important component of what strongmen do for the deadlift, but not so much the other way around.
We don't need to define what a PL exercise is.
I responded to the suggestion that strongman training somehow provides something more effective the PL approaches. You can't convince me otherwise by trying to say the Russians are doing something like strongman training because they do gpp or goodmornings.
 
So the question that is being asked is
Is a strongman events day superior gpp to traditional powerlifting gpp work for the novice to intermediate

Does everyone agree that this is the main debate here? I agree that for the elite you need to be specific but going back to the original post we are not discussing training for the elite lifter
 
So what is the difference? PL gpp can include sled/prowler, kettlebells, circuits etc.
I thought the original post was about frequency and volume- not GPP.

Work capacity will have a bearing on a persons ability to manage frequency and volume- but GPP does not = frequency and volume.
GPP is a factor or an attribute relevant to the question 'how much?'.
 
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0ni...
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The point i am making is that a wide range of gpp will ultimately lead to bigger results and regarding frequency and volume (to which i would include gpp and spp) strongmen have the best pulls (this has been debated already so for sanity lets leave that) which is why i included a strongman routine
 
El Freako said:
0ni...
ahitonwall.gif
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If i dont understand something then i will question it. A strong person or good citations adds more credibility but if i dont understand the whys then i will question it. As i stated lots of strongmen have 400 deadlifts with regular bars while this is a rarity in pl and i dont think drugs is the right answer
 
0ni said:
The point i am making is that a wide range of gpp will ultimately lead to bigger results and regarding frequency and volume (to which i would include gpp and spp) strongmen have the best pulls (this has been debated already so for sanity lets leave that) which is why i included a strongman routine
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But you've just over-complicated things in the process. We're only talking novice/intermediate lifters here. And you've left so many factors out of the equation for the "best deadlifter" discussion that its not funny.
 
yeah I want to leave it as well. Gpp and spp provide parts of the puzzle, but I do not agree that a wider range of gpp will make you better at a specific movement. I'm just saying why depart from a PL template for a PL movement? The GPP or strongmen is not a huge factor in the 1rm deadlifts IMO and the relevance of GPP to their training capacity is no different to the same issue for a PL. It doesn't have to be addressed via strongman.

The big deadlifting strongmen that come to mind for me are former powerlifters. A couple of powerlifters who are strong deadlifters have also moved into wrestling and MMA- I might put up a wrestling routine. :confused:

0ni said:
The point i am making is that a wide range of gpp will ultimately lead to bigger results and regarding frequency and volume (to which i would include gpp and spp) strongmen have the best pulls (this has been debated already so for sanity lets leave that) which is why i included a strongman routine
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I have noticed that well rounded athletes often perform better at a single event which is what leads me to believe that a wider gpp base is better. You think differently and i cant take issue with that at all
 
Better than who?
NRL players are well rounded athletes.
Like I said- why would we assume the top powerlifters in the world are doing it wrong?
Ian Bell- last years top deadlifter at the Arnold. Does he do strongman or PL training. Is he misguided?
 
And just for the sake of it jeremy hartman said his wrestlers pick up movements and have better body control than his other students. I truely do think a wide range of sports is best. The point about it not having to be strongman is good but then there are lots of big pullers in strongman. As you said they did both pl and strongman. Maybe the issue is with upping total midsection volume rather than strongman itself and stronmen typically do lots of this?
 
Spritcha said:
Better than who?
NRL players are well rounded athletes.
Like I said- why would we assume the top powerlifters in the world are doing it wrong?
Ian Bell- last years top deadlifter at the Arnold. Does he do strongman or PL training. Is he misguided?
Click to expand...

Give up spritcha we've all been oni'ed at one stage, the man is immune to reason.
 
Spritcha said:
Better than who?
NRL players are well rounded athletes.
Like I said- why would we assume the top powerlifters in the world are doing it wrong?
Ian Bell- last years top deadlifter at the Arnold. Does he do strongman or PL training. Is he misguided?
Click to expand...

He played football in his youth which involves lots of metcon...
 
0ni said:
And just for the sake of it jeremy hartman said his wrestlers pick up movements and have better body control than his other students. I truely do think a wide range of sports is best. The point about it not having to be strongman is good but then there are lots of big pullers in strongman. As you said they did both pl and strongman. Maybe the issue is with upping total midsection volume rather than strongman itself and stronmen typically do lots of this?
Click to expand...

You have lost me.
If a wide range of sports is best for PL then you seem to have stumbled across something radical there because none of the top coaches I know of are sending powerlifters out to do soccer and gymnastics.
I understand that a good athlete will have a diverse range of attributes. I understand that their are a range of attributes benficial to a powerlifter. None of what you have said makes me see that strongman training is superior to PL training for deadlift.
 
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