D-Aspartic Acid

[carhartt]

Why would you disregard something that has decent information behind it?
We also don't inject l-tryptophan into our brains yet it makes it's way there.

You are assuming the blood brain barrier is a 100% full proof iron clad barrier that protects all, nothing could be further from the truth..

As for test and e2 conversion e2 always follows t. Just it is different for every person.. This substance is t something I would he consuming Alot of until it has lasted the o e true test that matters. Time...

With Aspartame, I understand that there is evidence from both sides, supporting studies from the FDA and the like and a few medical doctors indicating its an excitotoxin.

 

[ebagz]

mine came with a 3g scoop so i was gonna use 3g every morning with brekky.. how would you recommend dosing?

 

[carhartt]

mine came with a 3g scoop so i was gonna use 3g every morning with brekky.. how would you recommend dosing?

Yeah thats how I would dose it.
I was advised at the time, if having straight DAA to have 3grams with about 350ml of water.

I'd really be interested to see how you go, keep us updated.

 

[Christian]

Excitotoxity and the NMDA receptor

Steven M. Rothmana and John W. Olneyb

aDepartment of Anatomy and Neurobiology, and the Department of Pediatrics, Washington University School of Medicine, St Louis, MO 63110, USA.

bDepartment of Psychiatry, Washington University School of Medicine, St Louis, MO 63110, USA.

Available online 5 March 2003.
Abstract

The same receptors for excitatory amino acids (EAA) that mediate direct neuronal depolarization can also be responsible for neuronal injury. Prolonged stimulation of EAA receptors of either the N-methyl-d-aspartate (NMDA) or non-NMDA types eventually results in the death of most central neurons. The exact mechanism(s) of cell injury is complicated, since depolarization and neuronal swelling, calcium influx, and possibly second messengers all contribute. Evidence is accumulating that the brain damage associated with anoxia, stroke, hypoglycemia, epilepsy, and perhaps neurodegenerative illnesses such as Huntington's disease may be at least partially produced by excessive activation of NMDA receptors. To the extent that the pathophysiology can be explained by this mechanism, it may be amenable to rational therapies now under development.

NMDA-dependent superoxide production and neurotoxicity


Mireille Lafon-Cazal*, Sylvia Pietri†, Marcel Culcasi† & Joel Bockaert*


* Centre CNRS-INSERM de Pharmacologie-Endocrinologie, rue de la Cardonille, 34094 Montpellier Cedex 5, France
† CRIPDOM, PO Box 43, 34172 Castelnau-le Lez Cedex, France, and SREP-CNRS URA 1412, Université de Provence, 13397 Marseille Cedex 13, France

NEURONAL injury resulting from acute brain insults and some neurodegenerative diseases implicates N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) glutamate receptors1–4. The fact that antioxidants reduce some types of brain damage suggests that oxygen radicals may have a role5–7. It has been shown that mutations in Cu/Zn-superoxide dismutase (SOD), an enzyme catalysing superoxide (O- 2) detoxification in the cell, are linked to a familial form of amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS)4. Here we report that O- 2 is produced upon NMDA receptor stimulation in cultured cerebellar granule cells. Electron paramagnetic resonance was used to assess O- 2 production that was due in part to the release of arachidonic acid. Activation of kainic acid receptors, or voltage-sensitive Ca2+ channels, did not produce detectable O- 2. We also find that the nitrone DMPO (5,5-dimethyl pyrroline 1-oxide), used as a spin trap, is more efficient than the nitric oxide synthase inhibitor, L-N G-nitroarginine, in reducing NMDA-induced neuronal death in these cultures.

A potential role for excitotoxins in the pathophysiology of spinal cord injury
Dr. Alan I. Faden MD1,*, Roger P. Simon MD2

Issue
Annals of Neurology

Volume 23, Issue 6, pages 623–626, June 1988

Abstract

It has been proposed that endogenously released excitatory amino acids may contribute to injury of the central nervous system in a variety of disorders including certain neurodegenerative diseases, epilepsy, and cerebral ischemia. In the present studies we evaluated the hypothesis that excitatory amino acids, acting at the N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptor, contribute to secondary tissue damage following traumatic spinal cord injury. Administration of NMDA, adjacent to the trauma site, significantly worsened the outcome after thoracic cord injury in rats, whereas its stereoisomer, N-methyl-L-aspartate (NMLA), was without effect. Systemic treatment with MK-801—a selective, centrally active, NMDA antagonist—significantly improved neurological outcome after trauma. These findings extend the excitotoxin concept to central nervous system trauma and indicate that NMDA antagonists may be beneficial in the treatment of traumatic spinal cord injury.

The Glutamate Story - British Journal of Pharmacology, Volume 147, Issue S1 (p S100-S108) DOI 10.1038/sj.bjp.0706444

From the abstract:
"Realisation that glutamate and like amino acids (collectively known as excitatory amino acids (EAA)) mediated their excitatory actions via multiple receptors preceded establishment of these receptors as synaptic transmitter receptors. EAA receptors were initially classified as NMDA (N-methyl-D-aspartate) and non-NMDA receptors. In the early 1980s, NMDA receptors were shown to be involved in several central synaptic pathways acting in concert with non-NMDA receptors under conditions where a protracted excitatory postsynaptic potential was effected in response to intense stimulation of presynaptic fibres. Such activation of NMDA receptors together with non-NMDA receptors leads to the phenomenon of long-term potentiation (LTP), associated with lasting changes in synaptic efficacy (synaptic plasticity) and considered to be an important process in memory and learning."

(The NMDA receptor, which is a glutamate receptor, is the predominant molecular device for controlling synaptic plasticity and memory function. Aspartate (the conjugate base of aspartic acid) stimulates NMDA receptors, though not as strongly as the amino acid neurotransmitter glutamate. Both aspartate and glutamate serve as an excitatory neurotransmitters in the brain, and are excitotoxins -- meaning that excessively high tissue concentrations can cause nerve cell damage.

* full article: http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/fulltext/121674911/PDFSTART

..........

 

[carhartt]

Noobs,

From what I've read, most of these points have previously been raised and debated quite heavily, obviously there are other people who would be concerned and have read these studies.

question for all DAA users - Bodybuilding.com Forums



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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGNFIT
DAA is metabolized into N-methyl-D-aspartate in the body, and the latter chemical is heavily neurotoxic (neuroscience researchers use it to literally KILL neurons when studying animals).

What is your take on that?

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Patrick Arnold:

Glutamate is also neurotoxic. yet it you ingest grams of it in your whey protein,
toxicity is dose dependent. they use injections of NMDA into specific areas of the brain to induce neurotoxicity. the concentrations utilized are orders of magnitude greater than what you would acheive taking DAA as directed. Remember, DAA is sold by a pharmaceutical company in europe as a supplement. If the toxicity were such an issue there is no way they would be selling the stuff.


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I'd say 99% of people who have used DAA, report higher cognitive mech. and mood enhancement.

 

[Christian]

99% based on what?

The experts @ bodybuilding.com

Over stimulation of the NMDA receptors is not a good thing... People already have problems in society with this we see it constantly... The last thing they need is more stimulation of it.

There are better things to do until we know more...

I.E a jab of test enth at this point in time with the knowledge we have would probably be better for you...

Remember when smoking didnt kill you...

Remember when DDT didnt kill you...

Absence of evidence is not evidenceof absence, and there is enough evidence to say otherwise.

 

[carhartt]

99% based on what?

The experts @ bodybuilding.com

Sorry let me clarify, the 99% of user feedback.
Actually PA doesn't post on BB... and sorry but PA is an expert, including Dr P.


Some more comments on DAA from PA.

Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold
we are not injecting DAA into our brains. I have read the studies where they use nmda to induce neuronal death and they produce localized concentrations that are magnitudes greater than could ever be acheived by oral ingestion of DAA at realistic dosages.
Dont forget that DAA is an endogenous substance with a vital neuroendocrine role. Its not some toxin that your body makes as a byproduct or something

Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold
certainly the levels are higher than normal, but they simply do not approach levels (at target areas) seen in studies where NMDA is used as a tool to induce nerve damage
you are entitled to your opinion and if you choose to err on the side of caution and not use the product thats fine. i understand you are not saying "its dangerous" and you are simply asking if i am concerned about the potential.

Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold
d-serine (and cycloserine) is also an agonist at the NMDA receptors. The difference is that it is concentrated in tissues other than the endocrine related ones that DAA and NMDA are. It actually has had alot of research done on it as a treatment for schizophrenia, and at doses of 2-3 grams a day. It is considered thusfar to be safe. You could make the same case that you are making here with DAA with this investigational drug.
I just say this so you dont think i am a nut outside the realm of responsible medical science.

Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold
the italian group that funded the study recommends their daa product be taken for 90 days btw.

Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold

NMDA receptors exist throughout the brain. God (and by god i mean evolution, but god sounds more poignant) didnt put them there to destroy your brain. He put them there to serve an essential function in regards to learning, memory, sexuality etc. etc.

When these receptors are overstimulated then trouble happens. Just like when serotonin receptors get overstimulated you get serotonin syndrome. And with dopamine overexcitation you can get mania and psychosis.

So the question is, are we overstimulating the NMDA receptors? I see no evidence that we are.
​

 

[Christian]

I dont see any proof i see alot of

"i said it isnt so it isnt"

Welcome to the world of science that means SWEET FUCK ALL

 

[carhartt]

Your right, hard to find proof, but a lot of valid points.
As mentioned before, pure speculation - trust me mate 6 months ago this is all the forums were full of - DAA / Excitotoxin / Neurotoxicity / Increased Prolactin / Increased E etc etc...

Besides I trust what PA and Dr P say, these boys know there shit...

In hindsight, they pretty much brought down a company through one epic thread... Do you remember the Slim Xtreme spiking incident? The Divanil issue as well, I'm sure there were others, just don't remember.

 

[Shrek]

Refresh me on the Divanil issue. I think I already left BB.com before that came up.

 

[Christian]

Your right, hard to find proof, but a lot of valid points.
As mentioned before, pure speculation - trust me mate 6 months ago this is all the forums were full of - DAA / Excitotoxin / Neurotoxicity / Increased Prolactin / Increased E etc etc...

Besides I trust what PA and Dr P say, these boys know there shit...

In hindsight, they pretty much brought down a company through one epic thread... Do you remember the Slim Xtreme spiking incident? The Divanil issue as well, I'm sure there were others, just don't remember.

Nope i have no idea what you are tlaking about lol, i dont really care about new products. The strongest people in the world never needed them and neither do a bunch of newbies to the strength game.

Yes there are valid points for all sides... and my point is simply "no one knows" so be cautious...

Take some rp6 instead at least there is good research into it

 

[carhartt]

Nope i have no idea what you are tlaking about lol, i dont really care about new products. The strongest people in the world never needed them and neither do a bunch of newbies to the strength game.

Yes there are valid points for all sides... and my point is simply "no one knows" so be cautious...

Take some rp6 instead at least there is good research into it

Appreciate your concern

Not a new product, but if your interested in an excellent and epic thread... enjoy

Let's discuss designer stimulants: (S)-diphenyl-2-pyrrolidinyl-methane (serious) - Bodybuilding.com Forums

 

[Christian]

I stay away from stimulants...

For a number of reasons.

But thanks anyway

 

[carhartt]

Refresh me on the Divanil issue. I think I already left BB.com before that came up.

95% 3,4-Divanil: have we been scammed for years? - Bodybuilding.com Forums

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2010/01/prweb3519384.htm


Sorry mate, if you don't want to read that garbage, basically:

Don't trust any supplement from a company unless they can supply a COA from an INDEPENDENT LAB and you KNOW that they ALWAYS test their raws, sorry but this also applies to Bulk products sourced in Australia (you know what I'm talking about).

 

[Christian]

Well we have TGA at least..

 

[carhartt]

Well we have TGA at least..

Thats very true, however the US has the FDA however you still find 'spiked' supps, such as the above Slim Xreme (Designer Stim), ALRI Restore and Jungle Warfare (PH's - although not controlled in the US, there are labelling laws).

 

[Christian]

Thats very true, however the US has the FDA however you still find 'spiked' supps, such as the above Slim Xreme (Designer Stim), ALRI Restore and Jungle Warfare (PH's - although not controlled in the US, there are labelling laws).

FDA is a fucking joke...

 

[carhartt]

FDA is a fucking joke...

Although I'm pretty sure this would be a criminal offence in the US, its like to putting meth in a supp.

 

[Jim_Junkie]

D-Aspartic Acid & Testosterone | Anthony Roberts

 

[carhartt]

D-Aspartic Acid & Testosterone | Anthony Roberts

Anthony Roberts - lol