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Fadi

...
Would you stop what’s been working for you for years based on some new scientific study? Personally, I wouldn’t. If something has been working, it does not stop working because some scientist somewhere has “proved” to the contrary.

A case in point here would be the application of the pre-exhaust method by bodybuilders. Bodybuilders are not scientists, but through trial and error have built a very solid base of what works and what doesn’t (both in the exercise and nutritional fields).


It seems that there are some “professional” trainers out there, in addition to many popular bodybuilding and fitness forums, who’ve decided to jump on that scientific bandwagon, forgoing their trusted and evident results, in exchange of said “scientific evidence” speaking against the pre-exhaust method as a viable way to building muscles.


Unfortunately, someone forgot to inform those scientists of the purpose behind applying the pre-exhaust method into one’s training program. Hence, the scientist began with a false premise, which could only lead to a false conclusion, and that’s exactly what happened.


My beef is with the bodybuilding community who has chosen to close their minds to the blatantly obvious blunder that was committed by the scientists in question.


If I ask any member of the Ausbb Team as to the purpose of using the pre-exhaust method, I would expect to receive the same reply to my inquiry. That is, we use it to pre-exhaust a larger muscle in favour of a smaller one. Or put another way, we use it to increase fatigue in a particular muscle whilst leaving another muscle fresh.


What the scientists found upon their completion of the experiment, was that the larger muscle, the pectorals/chest in this case, had less activity than the front deltoids and triceps, which had a lot more activity going on.Therefore they (falsely) concluded, that using the pre-exhaust method did not enhance muscle activity during multi-joint exercises (such as the bench press) when compared with regular training, i.e. when going straight into performing the bench press.


But hey wait a minute! The reason behind bodybuilders using the pre-exhaust was
not to increase activity in the targeted muscle (the chest), but rather to increase fatigue in that muscle instead!


So their scientific finding proves and validates what the bodybuilding community has been saying and practicing since Arnold’s days, that a decrease in muscle activity (in the targeted muscle/the chest) during pre-exhaust
proves that this method actually works! When you exhaust/fatigue a particular muscle, you would expect its activity to decrease, plain and simple.


Take home message: trust in what’s working and what has been working for you irrespective of what any Tom Dick and Jane, be they from the scientific community or not, might say or present you with as evidence for their claims.

http://www.seannal.com/articles/training/pre-exhaust-training.php

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18076251

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/5772811_Effects_of_exercise_order_on_upper-body_muscle_activation_and_exercise_performance






 
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You clearly don't understand the scientific method that you are trying to criticize.

First off one or a handful of studies don't prove a theory. Data need to be consistent and repeatable in high quality studies

The scientific method is self correcting. If new evidence or data suggest contradicting evidence theories evolve to the new information.

As for the pre exhaust method couldn't care less about it.
 
First off one or a handful of studies don't prove a theory. Data need to be consistent and repeatable in high quality studies

That's what he is saying though.

There was one study done, under false pretences/assumptions, it's 'results' are now followed (wrongly) by people.

Whereas before people were indeed doing what works for them.

Myself i assumed Fadi was going to propose something the other way around; people abandoning science based evidence for 'bro science' lol

Ironically i think this example of the 'scientific study' was more Bro Science than real science. Meh. Whatever works for you.

By the way, is the Beginners Program listed here a Bro Science routine? lol
 
I love the pre-exhaust method.
I don't employ it every workout but it certainly makes for a gruelling workout when done correctly.

It's a killer when done for the quads. 20 reps on the leg extension followed by 12-15 squats. OUCH!!
 
In the field of exercise scientists have no idea.
Strength training is based upon cause and effect and self evident truths.

Emg is not a satisfactory tool to measure strength in a muscle especially on multi joint movements
Proper testing requires; proper tools of measuring, time and testing hundreds of people.

On the subject of Pre-exhaust as with all methods needs time for the trainee to adjust and for pre-exhaust to actually be effective, there needs to be no rest between the two exercises and both exercises to be taken to negative fatigue.



negative fatigue means that after you can no longer lift, a training partner lifts the weight for you and then you slowly lower that weight and this sequence is continued until YOU cannot control the lowering portion yourself, and in some cases the training partner will actually place force on the movement, especially where the resistance is quite low, which is common on poorly designed machines.
 
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I love the pre-exhaust method.
I don't employ it every workout but it certainly makes for a gruelling workout when done correctly.

It's a killer when done for the quads. 20 reps on the leg extension followed by 12-15 squats. OUCH!!

When you feel muscular pain right down deep in the bone you know you're doing it right.
 
That takes special training to be able to train like that, not to mention training for recovery from all that training
 
I have to say studies on nutrition are particularly confuzzling!

For example 'a carb is a carb', well of course it is you don't need a study (even though there are plenty of course) to show that the chem structure of a carb is always going to have the same potential energy no matter what fancy name you give it or where it comes from. So in terms of thermogenesis, fat loss and metabolic function this is true.

But for micronutrient content (and amount of fibre) different sources are worlds apart.

As [MENTION=7521]C_T[/MENTION]; mentioned before studies focus on one key variable at a time, reality is many variables co-exist and interact with each other whether we like it or not..
 
First off one or a handful of studies don't prove a theory. Data need to be consistent and repeatable in high quality studies

The scientific method is self correcting. If new evidence or data suggest contradicting evidence theories evolve to the new information.

do a google search on how many scientific study's are actually reproducible. While that is the definition of science, the fact is, that is not the reality!

Good post Fadi
 
Thread title should read....

Bro Science vs Bullshit science

The study went balls deep on itself...

Note: it's not broscience to follow protocols that work...

It only becomes broscience when the gain is falsely attributed to some false fact...

Ie must eat 6 meals a day to gain more muscle...
 
That's what he is saying though.

There was one study done, under false pretences/assumptions, it's 'results' are now followed (wrongly) by people.

Whereas before people were indeed doing what works for them.

Myself i assumed Fadi was going to propose something the other way around; people abandoning science based evidence for 'bro science' lol

Ironically i think this example of the 'scientific study' was more Bro Science than real science. Meh. Whatever works for you.

Brilliant, thank you sir!
 
not this fucking shit again
hurr should I listen to a retard in the gym or a medical study durr

neither you fucking morons
 
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