Beginner concerns re: Scale?

[Big Mick]

Depends on your goals and where you currently are, the books (CBL and Carb Nite) explain how to use insulin to your advantage, I am not going to be able to explain in a forum post what took two books and hundreds of scientific studies to put together.

QUOTE]

As prob 30-40% of people train in the morning and maybe 50% at night (rough guess - prob not many people train in the middle of the day due to work)

Does that mean they are doomed to get results due to consuming carbs at these times?

or is it ok to consume carbs at these times if it is post workout? Does that cancel everything "bad" out?

Honest question...

Again it's all explained in the book. To keep it simple if you want to follow CBL with optimal results you would train before dinner and after lunch. Any other training schedule will make it difficult to follow the protocol with optimal results.

You are not doomed, but obviously you will not be using your bodies natural hormone cycle to gain every last bit of advantage you can.

Most people gain muscle/strength despite of what they are doing not because of it.

 

[Rugby88]

The book does reference a shitload of studies, however one seemingly appropriate criticism I've read is that the studies are referenced and used beyond what they were intended for. For example, insulin spikes in the morning therefore delay your nutrient intake - the premise is solid, but does delaying breakfast really cause you to burn significantly more fat? Does spiking insulin post workout really cause huge changes in muscle repair? Subtle changes, perhaps - but it's not quantified anywhere.

I doubt it makes huge changes, I've only been on it a few weeks. I'll be coming off it tomorrow, being generous and saying I build 20% more muscle, 20% less fat on it - it's not worth it to me to feel so dead during the day. I need SOME carbs.

So now your saying it doesn't work after being on it for only 3 weeks? I am confused.

 

[Rugby88]

Again it's all explained in the book. To keep it simple if you want to follow CBL with optimal results you would train before dinner and after lunch. Any other training schedule will make it difficult to follow the protocol with optimal results.

You are not doomed, but obviously you will not be using your bodies natural hormone cycle to gain every last bit of advantage you can.

Most people gain muscle/strength despite of what they are doing not because of it.

What time is it bad to stop eating carbs? Would say training between 1-6 be ok? Or is 6 to late to consume carbs?

 

[Big Mick]

Mick where to start.

Its a fad diet. Just jumping on the bandwagon like every other fad diet before it.

So with you following every latest fad diet out there why are you just like any other middle aged fat bloke and not the most jacked motherfucker going around.

Bazza you do my head in!! At what stage did I suggest/say or in any other way even hint that I do any of it?? You just make crap up don't you??

And how does me doing or not doing it affect the books, and/or the way the hormones in your or my body work and how many studies are referenced in the books. Whether I do it or not has nothing to do with the validity of the studies and results of diets. One thing is in no way related to the other. Most fat people know what they need to do to get smaller, does not mean they want to do any of it or they ever will. So if I was lean and 5% body fat you would then believe the books that you have not even read yet dismiss as being a fad?? May be the world not being flat is just a fad...

For some reason you have an unhealthy fascination with my body composition, and how it relates to my knowledge of training, diet and nutrition.

Just because I read up on the books and understand what they are explaining, does not mean I actually do any of it, I also read up on a million other things that I have never and will never do, I have read up and learned about various steroids but will never consider using any of them.

 

[Bazza20]

Kiefer isn't even a dietitian. Physicists have a good track record at butchering nutrition research, Gary Taubes as a good example.

Kiefers ideas are hardly openly accepted by actual experts in the field. So trying to use him as the go to for any nutrition explanation is flawed from the start.

 

[jj80]

So now your saying it doesn't work after being on it for only 3 weeks? I am confused.

I have made my diet pretty sensible otherwise - decent macros / calories - I've just been having all my carbs post workout.

I have made small strength gains in the past 2 weeks so I'm going well but who's to say I can't chalk that up to sensible macros rather than meal timing. If it has given me small advantages like I said it's not worth the zero carb 'feeling' to me - I guess I'm just someone who doesn't do well on 0 carbs.

As for morning training he said it's fine in the book, but he says something about having carbs the night before to prepare for the morning training session. I'm sure there are cliff's online if you google it. I skimmed over that part as I dont intend on doing morning training, ever.

 

[Rugby88]

I would say 90% of the general public/general people who train at a gym would have no idea how to get results.

 

[Rugby88]

I have made my diet pretty sensible otherwise - decent macros / calories - I've just been having all my carbs post workout.

I have made small strength gains in the past 2 weeks so I'm going well but who's to say I can't chalk that up to sensible macros rather than meal timing. If it has given me small advantages like I said it's not worth the zero carb 'feeling' to me - I guess I'm just someone who doesn't do well on 0 carbs.

As for morning training he said it's fine in the book, but he says something about having carbs the night before to prepare for the morning training session. I'm sure there are cliff's online if you google it. I skimmed over that part as I dont intend on doing morning training, ever.

How much fat are you having?

 

[jj80]

My hormone level test recently was 17nmol for test so I've made fat kind of high, around 100 grams. Protein 200-300, carbs 100-200. Unfortunately I get fat on more than 2700 cals pretty fast so sometimes I have to keep my carbs closer to 100.

 

[Rugby88]

My hormone level test recently was 17nmol for test so I've made fat kind of high, around 100 grams. Protein 200-300, carbs 100-200. Unfortunately I get fat on more than 2700 cals pretty fast so sometimes I have to keep my carbs closer to 100.

Were you feeling shit on 100-200g of carbs a day? Or is this what your currently on?

 

[jj80]

I feel fine unless I have to concentrate on something important pre-training/carbs, which I feel tired doing. I spoke to someone yesterday (trainer) who said the same thing without me prompting 'if you have a job where you have technical stuff to do, or a uni course you gotta keep up with, all these fasting diets or low carb diets can make concentrating difficult'. This is my main and only issue with low carb, I dont feel depressed or anything - in fact I feel kind of relaxed...

 

[Rugby88]

I feel fine unless I have to concentrate on something important pre-training/carbs, which I feel tired doing. I spoke to someone yesterday (trainer) who said the same thing without me prompting 'if you have a job where you have technical stuff to do, or a uni course you gotta keep up with, all these fasting diets or low carb diets can make concentrating difficult'. This is my main and only issue with low carb, I dont feel depressed or anything - in fact I feel kind of relaxed...

Was 100-200g carbs while you were on the low carb diet?

 

[jj80]

Yes, the CBL diet, which I'm still on. The book recommends I have 160grams after training, daily, over a few meals (a calc based on how much weight you lose during the 10 day 0 carb phase before you start chugging carbs at night and 'backloading').

 

[Rugby88]

Yes, the CBL diet, which I'm still on. The book recommends I have 160grams after training, daily, over a few meals (a calc based on how much weight you lose during the 10 day 0 carb phase before you start chugging carbs at night and 'backloading').

Fair enough - hate to see you on a low carb diet haha - must just not suit you.

You cant tell much after only 3 weeks though!

 

[Goosey]

Kiefer isn't even a dietitian. Physicists have a good track record at butchering nutrition research, Gary Taubes as a good example.

Kiefers ideas are hardly openly accepted by actual experts in the field. So trying to use him as the go to for any nutrition explanation is flawed from the start.

What did you think of Taubes book?

Got half way through it, it's sitting on the shelf.

 

[Bazza20]

What did you think of Taubes book?



Got half way through it, it's sitting on the shelf.

Struggling to remember it now, it was a while ago. I think I got half way through it as well.