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Atheists, perhaps it's you, and not God, who truly do not exist.

spartacus said:
I reckon a world that gives much more credence to metaphysical beliefs is a world returning to the Dark Ages.
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Can you elaborate on what you "reckon" please? And can you be more specific by providing us with a date in history of those "Dark Ages" that you were referring to?

actually I consider myself agnostic rather than atheist
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So are you in search of the truth or have you found it? Your posts indicate to me at least, that you have found what you're looking for.

no one should need religion to know right from wrong; 2015 most people have a fair idea.
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Perfect, so here's a question for you concerning morals: would you sleep with your own sister, or commit incest of any type? If not, would you at least find the rationality behind supporting such a view as long as we're dealing with two consenting adults, where no physical harm, or any form of conception results from such an event? It's 2015, so I'm curious if things have changed a bit regarding this subject.
 
!)i have already referred to days when religious stooges sanctioned top down rule and supported absolute monarchies. Not really interested in discussing so-called past great days of any culture. Most of it is glorified bs, including by the West, although i love western culture. I am someone who does not want to live in the past.

2) have i found truth? No, but i will not be looking to religion for it. I will just live my life in a way that is committed to my own and family's happiness and try to ensure my actions do not adversely affect others.

As i suggest, it is 2015 and most people in world have a fair idea about what is wrong and right. Good luck to those who need religion to help guide them. I certainly do not.

3) i don't think any religion has a monopoly on morality. Most Aussies are not religious, but they have a fair idea about who to sleep with and how to act with each other.

I think even many species of animals know it is wrong to have sex with siblings. I could be wrong on this.
To conclude, let us hope that us westerners never abandon the separation of the state and religion.
 

You're dodging the question Spartacus - would you sleep with your sister???

I can't stop laughing!!! Thanks for the laugh Fadi
 
fuck off, why would anyone want to answer such a dumb question. As if God/religion needs to tell me not to sleep with my sister.

let us look at scoreboard about how religious leaders in positions of power abused little boys and girls. Maybe you should ask the same vermon whether they would fuck their sister or brother. After all, these dirty pricks actually studied the guidelines of God.

I think it is safe to say good and evil people, both with or without the influence of religion.
 
Headley said:
'I do not understand' is the basis of science. It is the process of acquiring knowledge, to understand exactly how something works and to understand 'why it is'.

Science ended the dark ages.
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No. The scientific process is about testing hypotheses, not merely acquiring knowledge for the sake of acquiring knowledge. The hypotheses are either conjured up out of thin air and then the data are sought to test them or alternatively they are induced from available data. Whatever path is used, some imagination or creative spark is required by the scientist.

through science, it is possible to understand "how" things work but not "why". Why does hydrogen burn in the presence of oxygen to make water? Because it feels like doing it, I dunno. We know how it combusts, and how we think a hydrogen bond works and the stochiometry of the reaction. We can explain how, but not why.
 

I'll leave your other points for a later time. However for now, I'm really interested in your view on the point of incest that I raised with you. I am not interested in what "most people in the world" view in 2015, only what you view since it was you who made the point.


Talking about religion having a monopoly on morality was not even a subject I brought up with you, so I have no idea where you're going with this!


Again, you're talking about "many species of animals" regarding the incest point I raised with you. Not something I even remotely hinted to. So again, I am really not sure where you're going with this either.


My question to you was very simple, however if you need some more clarification on it, please let me know. Again, thank you for your time.
 
spartacus said:
i don't have one. But, if i did, she probably would be given my rugged good looks (i wish).
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Did you say you were Greek Spartacus?

I guess the question should be, "would you sleep with your Brother?"
 
fadi, i am not going to debate about how i know incest is wrong. Any decent code of behaviour frowns on such actions. This has been passed down for many generations whether it be from religious guidelines or as an unacceptable norm.

As i have suggested, many Westerners are not religious, but they will never forget the legacy of past generations about knowing what is right and what is wrong.

Now if you want to get into a debate about what is 'good', what is 'evil', pick another person because i am not really that interested.

I just know what is wrong, and god/religion has nothing to do with it.
 

Brother, I would not debate with you or anyone else for that matter. I am a Muslim, a practising one. That means I do not engage in debates with others. I have when I was younger for 9 whole years, and I do regret it. A discussion, a mature discussion is what I was after. Sorry if I made you feel uncomfortable with my questions. Still, I am here to tell you that there are world renowned atheist scientists who have nothing good to say about God, yet are very comfortable in rationalising incest. What would you say about that?
 
fadi, i have never said religion has no good in it. Religion has and still promotes sensible messages which guides many lives.

I do not even rule out possibility of God.

I just have never found a need for it at any stage of my life, when a ward of the state, when i was homeless, never. I always worked things out myself, and feel i have improved as a person over time. But religion has never even crossed my mind with regard to my own self-improvement.

For others, religion may indeed prove very useful.
 
ride29er said:
Why must there be someone to thank?
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I was more than clear in putting forward my question to you, yet you seem to have totally avoided its subject matter. I was using your logic and I informed you of that fact. Even though I disagree with your logic, I was using it for the basis of my question to you. So again, if God is to be blamed for the evil, who is to be praised for the good? Again, I'm using your logic and not mine. If you don't wish to answer the question, then that is fine with me, but I am hoping you would at least consider it. Thank you.
 

And you have my full support and admiration with that brother. Personal growth is what life is all about. So I'm very proud of you and your achievements in life so far. God bless...
 
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